Doom RPG Ported to PC | Hacker News Reader

Doom RPG Ported to PC

doomworld.com

161 pointsecliptik49 comments

Tangentially related - you can play a turn-based Doom (1993) on Twitter:

https://twitter.com/tweet2doom/status/1444355917160534024

There is a tree explorer that shows you all moves that have been played so far by everyone [0]. If you are interested how I made this, you can check the Github repo [1].

[0] - https://tweet2doom.github.io

[1] - https://github.com/ggerganov/tweet2doom

That is super cool.

Oooh, that's a cool way to visualize branching playthroughs. Great inspiration for potential future projects!

Now we need someone to create a tool that records local gameplay and encodes it into tweet2doom commands.

...which can be interpreted as a turing machine... which can be used to... to...

For people like me that do not know what Doom RPG is: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doom_RPG

I feel terrible for thinking that smartphones and mobile gaming didn't start until the iphone. I wrote off years of other people's hard efforts to establish the space that apple absolutely annihilated.

The fact that they had a category for "mobile game of the year" in 2005 just shows how hard people were trying to get smartphones going.

The whole J2ME era was a gimmick that went nowhere, did it? Like most of the 2000s write once run everywhere dream Java had for GUI apps.

Sidenote: I would love to read a retrospective of whatever happened to Java on the desktop since. There's an alternate universe out there where we're writing cross platforms apps in Java instead of Electron or Flutter.

It effectively went nowhere, but it wasn't quite as bad as you might think. On the last pre-smartphone I had I ran offline OSM, in J2ME. Not sure about the one before.

Maybe on US it didn't went anywhere.

On Europe Nokia and Sony phones were great at J2ME games, alongside Symbian, naturally like it happens with Android nowadays, when using flagship devices.

J2ME is mostly dead; I think it lives on as an option for interactive content on Blu-Ray though. But just because it's dead now doesn't necessarily mean it was a gimmick that went nowhere, IMHO.

Obviously, write once, run everywhere didn't apply. But Nokia Series 40 was J2ME plus some Nokia extras and had pretty big install numbers until it petered out. Of course, I think all the J2ME platforms had platform extras, if not just platform quirks. Of course, Nokia platforms more or less disappeared in the US somewhere 2005ish (reportedly over disputes about shipping phones with a built in SIP client), and their worldwide popular models were virtually invisible to US population and US based tech news; only after moving to Windows Phone 7 did Nokia phones start showing up in the US in volume again.

Android didn't want to pay for a J2ME license, so they just put actual Java on there (or cough totally not Java cough, but happens to be mechanically translatable from JVM bytecode, depending on how close to a courtroom you are). Having file streams that you can seek in both directions is super handy, so Android has expanded to fill the niche that J2ME phones took on.

Did you happen to live during it? If not, believe me, pre-iphone "phone games" basically pale in comparison to stuff that came out for the new era of touchscreen smartphones.

I don't doubt that there were amazing games but it just wasn't the same and I assume those are great more so because they lean in to the platform's flaws.

Maybe, but there were amazing games on the Motorola A1000 which had a resistive touch screen. Scumm was officially launched on there, plus doom, gb and gbc emulators, plus loads of properly released games - I had a tower defense style war game and a driving game that used to blow people away.

Depends on the device. I had Tomb Raider on my PDA in 2002 and it looked and played just as well as it did on the PC back in 1996. Feature phones like the Sony Ericsson series obviously couldn't handle anything like Tomb Raider but they did an excellent job at stuff that looked reminiscent of the SNES era of gaming. I had a few Zelda-style action RPGs (not Doom RPG weirdly though) that were great fun to play.

Tomb Raider was actually released on the Nokia N-Gage in 2003:

https://www.mobygames.com/game/ngage/tomb-raider

It was released on both (there’s a link for the Windows Mobile version in your citation). I never owned an N-Gage though which is why I didn’t mention it (also my opinion of the N-Gage was never that high). However I did own a PDA.

Since we are talking about mobile ports of Tomb Raider, it was also released for the Sony Ericsson range of feature phones too. Albeit in name only because that version was a side on 2D dungeon crawler. I did own that game too but it reminded me more of Roland on the Ropes (Amstrad CPC464) than Tomb Raider.

From what I’ve seen there were some quality ports for the N-Gage. Sega Rally looked surprisingly good from the YouTube videos I’ve seen. But I still don’t regret never owning one since it’s firm factor was, frankly, ridiculous.

I remember being really cool in the early 2k's with a Compaq Ipaq PDA, PCMCIA GPS receiver that slid into the back and TomTom maps in my car. Most devices didn't have GPS then. Damn, they go for a pretty penny on ebay. Have to go dig those things up!

I find it exactly the opposite! There were excellent phone games back then, now it's all microtransaction, spin-to-win/scratch-to-win, ad-infested "experiences" with some inane gameplay on the side, engineered for maximum addictiveness.

I remember playing Lock and Load 2 [1] in high school during that era against my classmates via Bluetooth.

It was pretty fun! Symbian has been a great OS, something I reaffirmed when I studied Tanenbaum's circus book in college.

[1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-fC1xI3oGPU

Symbian was not a great from a development standpoint I understand.

It really is to Steve Jobs’ credit that he was able to wrestle his phone (mostly) out of the iron grips of the operators.

Because that was the reason mobile games worked this way: the operators decided what ran on your phone and the things you wanted apart from that were relegated to the java sandbox, take it or leave it. These days your operator controlled a setting on your phone for how many text messages you could store (on your phone). Pay some extra or be really nice and they changed the setting so you could store 100 messages instead of 50. You can imagine they weren’t too happy to lose that kind of control.

I was alive during the era and almost no one had commercially released games on their phones. For one thing, storage was incredibly limited. For another, the cost was incredibly high vs what you got - not just the game itself but the actual cost of a plan that would allow you to download the game to your device.

Towards the mid-2000s we started getting some rather elaborate 3D titles but then we ran into the problem of a numerical keypad being a pretty bad control scheme for anything more advanced than simple arcade games or turn-based titles.

The one market that pre-smartphone phone games did well in was Japan but they had some very high-profile franchise tie-ins and otaku are well-known for buying almost anything.

I didn't have a good enough phone for any of these games but I read about them on IGN. It seemed ridiculous at the time, at least from the perspective of a high school video game nerd. Why not just focus on a handheld gaming system and let a phone be a phone? I never imagined the digital Swiss Army knives/pocket computers they would become

Pre-iPhone was full of all the elements to make an iPhone, but was clearly lacking business people (even in the mobile industry who were raking in money) to push the investment.

PDAs with vibrant full color screens and "acceptable" OSes predated the iPhone. Mobile internet was around for quite a while with awful text interfaces and crap standards.

What was probably missing was a good OS. What happened is that anything beyond a text OS, the industry cowered before the might of Microsoft, and Microsoft can't design UI for a damn, they can only copy it, or put the minimum amount in to try to keep other people from succeeding.

I don't even want to say Apple did some revolutionary job of making the iPhone OS. They just didn't do a terrible one like Microsoft, or hamstring themselves with bad hardware like Palm. Apple simply made a good OS atop a good hardware integration. And that was enough to vastly separate it from all the beancounter businesspeople and Microsoft incompetence.

Microsoft had at least 5 years to establish itself with windows CE and others, but they are just not a competent company when they don't have a monopoly to leverage.

I am not a Jobs fan or an Apple fan, especially since they are as or more anticompetitive than Microsoft, but the pre-iPhone scene really was fundamentally hamstrung by failure-almost-by-design on the part of the business people involved, and so Apple gets credit for that.

But yeah, kudos to those people that pushed the fundamental paradigms and programming, including Apple with the Newton and Palm that kept it moving forward.

I dunno; minus the lack of true multitasking (which the iPhone, too; originally lacked), OG PalmOS got really close, especially for the time.

By the time we got the HandSpring with it's removable/exchangeable extensions like GPS + MP3's, or the Treo, with it's built-in phone - PalmOS always felt solid and was so amazing on battery life it blew the mind.

I worked making J2ME phone games back then. There was definitely an element of going back to games of 10-20 years before.

When I started we were doing sub 100k games, and by the end it was about 1.5mb.

It was fun trying to make things that fit into tiny spaces.

Nokia and Sony phones could do some very basic 3D, but mostly things were 2D and resources were very tight.

I worked in a startup on an MMORPG that was going to work on phones and PCs, it was very low-poly and I tried to base the look on the video for Dire Straits - Money For Nothing.

Ah. I thought the joke was that Doom has ported to so many obscure platforms that it was novel to play it on an actual PC.

John Carmack's .plan on creating Doom RPG.

https://raw.githubusercontent.com/ESWAT/john-carmack-plan-ar...

> Write-once-run-anywhere. Ha. Hahahahaha. We are only testing on four platforms right now, and not a single pair has the exact same quirks. All the commercial games are tweaked and compiled individually for each (often 100+) platform. Portability is not a justification for the awful performance.

I love this blurb. I've been 'on an island'/'in my wizard's tower' at work, and I'm glad to see that I'm not the only one who ends up pulling hair out when docs don't match expectations.

Playing j2me games on a phone in some ways felt better than modern smartphone gaming.

This is surely nostalgia and I wouldn’t want to go back to these times, if only because of tiny screens.

But I will still miss that era, tactile feedback from actual keys, single player gameplay, way less ads or dark patterns, etc.

You paid for the game upfront and that was that.

Doom RPG was the first game i ever finished on a phone.

While from a technical perspective modern smartphones have way more power and they are way more consistent than J2ME phones ever hoped to be[0] the fact that there were physical controls made the old phones -IMO- better for many types of games, like platformers, exploration, first person games, etc. Though on the other hand pretty much all phones had some very slow LCD screens that with fast motion they became all smudgy.

Having said that turn-based games like Doom RPG work fine on smartphones. There are some types of games, including dungeon crawlers and "point and click" adventure games (or point and tap i guess :-P) that i expected to flourish in touchscreen devices like mobile phones and tablets, but that didn't end up happening.

[0] i was into gamedev J2ME games at the time, working on a couple of projects, eventually abandoned the effort because i was getting bug reports that were impossible for me to debug since instead of Sun having a single VM that everyone would targeted, many manufacturers made their own or used some 3rd party ones - and this ended up having tons of inconsistencies and bugs (i remember even things like devices reporting their screen resolution wrong - how can you get that wrong?). I knew someone who worked at a company testing these J2ME games and he said they had a warehouse full of phones and basically went on to test the games on each one of them - but this was not something i could do myself, so i gave up.

> There are some types of games, including dungeon crawlers and "point and click" adventure games (or point and tap i guess :-P) that i expected to flourish in touchscreen devices like mobile phones and tablets, but that didn't end up happening.

ScummVM is available for touchscreen phones. Pointing directly on the screen doesn't work well, but there should be a mode where you can swipe around to position the cursor and then tap anywhere to send a click at the cursor's location.

Well, "point and tap" was mostly a joke :-) i'd expect the game to have slightly different approach - most likely something similar to the Sierra's SCI games where you'd choose the action to do from a bar. Point-and-click adventure games is even something that people started using in recent years, for more than 3 decades these were just "adventure games" and over their history used a lot of types of interfaces.

In any case those were games whose UX (at least those using 2D graphics anyway) is basically about moving and activating objects in space, something that works very well on a touch screen (if anything it can be even more intuitive), which is why i expect them to flourish there.

Also note that what i refer to is them being popular types of games to see on such devices, not just them existing.

Not necessarily even single-player, I remember having fun playing some Worms clone with two other friends over Bluetooth back in the high school. One of them had an actual Motorola RAZR V3, no kidding.

The real flaw was the aggressively awful dpads phones had. If they'd made the minimal effort to have decent quality inputs then games of that era could've been fine even with the one-thumb limitation.

Same author as the Doom64 source code reverse engineering project. He has two brothers, and all three are big contributors in the doom modding community.

https://github.com/Erick194/DOOM64-RE

I have fond memories of playing Doom RPG on my old Sony-Ericsson on the train ride home from college. The screen was so small that after a few minutes I started feeling like my eyes were on fire. Great game tho.

I remember there being a puzzle in this game where you had to extract data from a database by writing a SQL query, felt like an absolute badass doing that as a kid

Oh, nice! But allow me to object that writing SQL in T9 should feel badass at any age.

Best phone game I ever played, that's for sure. I liked it. I don't think I have played any phone games since... wow, it was 2006, right?

These days we have phones powerful enough to play Doom 3, probably even Doom 2016. I mean look at the Deck. It's crazy

The Deck is an x86_64 device, basically a tiny laptop in a handheld form-factor. The Nintendo Switch is closer to a phone since it's an ARM device

In terms of transistor count, the deck is closer to the latest and greatest iPhone, is it not?

I didn't know about this, watched some gameplay on youtube. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tY3xi0HPrbs

Kind of related, lately I've been playing POOM, a surprisingly well made Doom demake with original levels for PICO-8. https://freds72.itch.io/poom

Why can't someone create simple instructions of how to run this thing?

the instructions are all right there:

- download and extract the zip file

- go to archive.org, go to software, search "doom rpg brew". download and extract the zip file to the same directory

- run BarToZip.exe

- run DoomRPG.exe

Thanks! I must confess I've never heard of this game before.

I could not understand from the message, but was it freed from BREW?

Fond memories playing this on my motorola razr

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