Entrepreneurs are cocky jerks | Hacker News Reader

Entrepreneurs are cocky jerks

forbes.com

21 pointsSeattleSeeley20 comments

I like talking with doers. I like sharing with doers. I like learning from doers.

Helping people want to become doers is where I find some of this friction happens. How that comes across can be another point of hurt feelings.

There's a big difference between thinking less about yourself and thinking less of yourself.

There's a big difference between having a quiet confidence in what you do and just doing it, vs having to strut around like a rockstar CEO.

I'm not cocky, or a jerk. I'm not a doormat or a pushover either. I know my shit. I'm just focussed on goals. I constantly read, learn and try. I also know what I don't know and dont' hesitate for a second to say so. I don't believe in faking it until I make it.

I believe in keeping kindness and goodness fashionable and am not opposed to making people cry if they continually make other people cry and can't think beyond themselves.

Either way if you're truly busy doing things and improving, you're busy not celebrating yourself.

Entrepreneurs/Startups are like the new Rockband, everyone wants to be one including the self-promoting posers who often don't have a track record. Ideas are cheap for entrepreneurs, execution is the limited resource.

Those who have succeeded in small ways know to shut up because listening is always an opportunity to learn and get better, and sharing is an opportunity.

When you come across people who talk more than they do, it's not selfish to say I will give everything I can, but knowing what I get back might be limited to help take something off my plate, I have to go take care of my sh*t because no one else will.

I know it's a controversial opinion, and I have gotten a lot of criticism, but I'm curious if people agree? I can't imagine what it would be like to be a founder with a "demanding relationship."

What about married founders. Isn't it very important to have an understanding wife?

*Wife or husband.

...or husband.

"I can't imagine..."

One of the many things I take for granted with my girlfriend is the amount of support she gave me during my year-long experiment with my own company.

1) She knew she came after work. She fully supported everything I needed to do to become successful and was never short on support. However, I made sure that I made time for her and reminded her that in my heart, she's first.

2) She was willing to lend me money. Always offered to but my pride never let me do that, and it turned out just fine anyway.

3) Was willing to have plenty of "staying in nights." She never asked for fancy schmancy meals unless I offered, and she sacrificed plenty of fancy dates just so I would stop worrying about money.

These three things are just a really small sample of the great things she's done to support me, and now that things are better off, I make sure I spend a lot more time making her happy and compensating for some of the stuff I messed up with in that year.

The moral? A lot of women will shy away from entrepeneurs and guys who behave like entrepreneurs because of how cold and distant they can be. However, the right woman will stand by your side and be the strongest person in the world.

I am in a long term relationship with a girl I plan to marry. For the first year-ish of my startup it was a slow ramp up to the hours/comittment talked about in these articles. I used to read these articles and feel like I was doing something wrong, or was going to fail, because I did have a healthy life and relationship.

But when we started having real customers and real investors and real competitors.... excuse the pun, shit got real. I've become a classic startup 'cocky jerk' - and I love it. I'm losing my hair faster than otherwise, but I've never felt so alive.

My gf takes the long term perspective. Luckily she started grad school around the same time my work ramped up, so we're both busy. She also knows I have a few years window to really do this (we're 28, want kids in early 30s) so I've got to give it my all. Make the time together really really great when you get a moment, and take a long term perspective. She knows, success or not, when I'm 40 family will be priority #1 and understands I've got a once in a lifetime opportunity for a short window of years.

It works for us, for now. She has 1.5 years left of grad school. But I admit I am super lucky to have found her. :)

Exactly. I'm a little jealous of your situation to be honest. I have tried to do both at once, but it's like I'm cheating on the girl with work! Thinking about it at all times, leaving to go back to work, etc.

When I had a "normal job" dating was easier.

> What about married founders.

Wife and I are on our second co-founded startup. First one raised $80M. Second is self-funded.

Lots of marriages didn't survive through the bubble, and I understand why. Without having my wife see the same insane things I was seeing, I have no idea how I'd properly communicate it.

It is incredibly important to have an understanding spouse or partner. I'd argue that your spouse or partner can often be critical to your overall success. I think they have to feel part of the team. My wife shares in the rewards of success and believes in me and my teams, so she is very supportive. This is particularly important when we are struggling or going through a hard time. I can't imagine being in a relationship with a person who wasn't 110% on board with me in a startup.

I really disagree, enough that I actually wrote a response on my blog: http://swombat.com/2011/11/3/jerk-entrepreneurs

I don't think there's a conflict between being a founder and being a good person who treats their partner properly.

Would you agree that all successful entrepreneurs are confident? I guess I feel that cocky and confident are interchangeable.

Most I know personally and most you read about (zuck, sean parker, even steve jobs!) were considered ass holes in some peoples eyes, but in fact, they were/are obsessed with winning. They exude an above average amount of confidence that I think rubs some people as cocky.

This doesn't mean they were horrible people.

Actually, I'd say many successful entrepreneurs start not-so-confident. Me, for example. While I'm alright at appearing confident when needed, I would self-describe as shy, and I'm definitely not the classic outgoing, charming extrovert that fits the "cocky jerk entrepreneur" stereotype. Instead, I'm introverted, focused, generally try to avoid confrontation, and find many small talk networking situations quite stressful. And yet, now on my third company, I'm doing quite well.

And I know many other successful entrepreneurs - and I meet more every week through my work at GrantTree - and the best ones are not at all jerks. Some of them are outgoing extroverts, others are more withdrawn, but a quality they all tend to have is that they're friendly, approachable, polite, etc.

Now, Steve Jobs and Zuckerberg are really exceptions, I don't think you can base a general rule on them, but even Steve Jobs, if you want to take him as an example, made a very clear commitment to focus on his family. He had only 2 things to focus on: his family and Apple. I'm pretty sure he wouldn't have reviewed contracts while having dinner with his wife. His entire attention and razor-sharp focus would be on her.

I'm reminded of something an Accenture partner I once worked with said. He liked working in financial services consulting because many people in the workplace are either competent and assholes, or nice people but incompetent, and he felt that either one without the other is unacceptable.

Whether or not that's true of FS consulting, I think it's true in general: just because you're really busy changing the world doesn't justify turning into an asshole. If you act like a jerk, you're a jerk, and that's that.

If at first you don't succeed... I worked for a guy who seemed to have a very understanding third wife.

> What about married founders. Isn't it very important to have an understanding wife?

The understanding can have a time, cost and cashflow/earnings limit. At one of my start-ups, of the first dozen co-founders or staff (who received sweat equity at +2%), I was the only singleton. After 18 months it was clear some wives (all staff was male, except for our designer) were beginning to feel that their husbands weren't spending enough time with them, earning enough from the project in the short-term or that they couldn't take vacations as frequently or for long enough. At around two and a half years, there was a revolt by the wives, who had come to know each other, and we had to change some of our practices within the company to accommodate them, or we'd lose staff and potentially many months of development, when we were reasonably close to finishing our first major & deployable build.

We were quite open amongst ourselves in discussing the issue, but a considerable problem was that our product (corporate software) had a long & detailed development period and revenue generation was delayed longer than anticipated. Our alpha/guinea pig testing of our product hit has some snags as a result of the revolt and ultimately revenue generation has been further delayed as well.

I can understand their perspective and we have tried to accommodate them, but our view (co-founders and senior staff) is that this is our "retirement fund" and we want it to be successful in the medium and long term, not a short-term small cash generator.

I think you meant to write 'spouse,' not wife. Unless you assume every entrepreneur is male.

yes.

I think it depends on the nature of the business, but above all the person's values. For example, I've been an independent web developer for a few years. I can choose how many projects I take on and how busy I am. I have more work coming in than I can handle, so I could hire an employee and build up the business but instead I turn it down. I could work 80 hours per week (lots of my independent colleagues do), but I choose to work 30-40 instead. I make a comfortable living and make plenty of time for my wife and family. It would seem that none of the "characteristics that apply to all entrepreneurs" apply to me. But I do have a business, so how is this possible?

This needs a citation.

The writer is probably leaning on his own extended circle of acquaintances which is likely to be, like him, young and male. This group is fairly cocky and entrepreneurs from this group could be expected, at a minimum, to be as cocky. Secondly, cocky jerks stick out more in our minds, we are less likely to remember entrepreneurs who were pleasant people.

While this doesn't run counter the title, the implication is that cocked jerkiness is a virtue for entrepreneurship. I somewhat doubt this and suspect that your average entrepreneur is less a cocky jerk than their reference group. (Unless, I guess, the RG's unusually deferent.)

Jason Friend and DHH wouldn't agree to this post.

Yes, the ones who haven't succeeded yet.

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