Comment by Supermancho | Hacker News Reader

Comment by Supermancho | Hacker News Reader

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> Feral ferrets would treat tens of species of endangered animals of California.

They die at temperatures that are a sustained sub-65 degrees or sustained 100+ degrees (which you can demonstrate with a live ferret, although I wouldn't recommend it).

The blackfooted ferret (endangered) is native to California. The claim that domestic sable ferrets would be invasive is ridiculous on it's face.

> Nature is too important to be left to the caprices of pet owners.

The CA fish and game commission is completely ideologically captured as they do not want to engage in any sort of scientific study for the non-existence of existing process (beyond a simple decree) or legal jeopardy that they may become embroiled in, after the fact. They much rather enjoy their salaries mediating the relatively safe cases of licensing and managing bureaucratic rules around existing fish and game.

There's also the uncomfortable truth that people do possess ferrets in CA. Pet stores stock goods for them and vets treat them. People all around CA let their ferrets roam outside and come back in when it gets colder at night (and to get food/water). Young adult/College dorms and apartments are rife with ferret owners. Again, the claims about ferrets being a "potentially" invasive species are specious, at best.

The European polecat (same species as the domestic ferret), inhabits a territory that goes from Finland to Spain. They live in western Russia and also in Morocco. They are adapted to a wide range of temperatures and climates. If you think that an animal living in Moscow can't survive temperatures below 18 Celsius, well, think again.

In particular they feel pretty at home in the Mediterranean, so would survive perfectly in the Mediterranean weather of California as long as they find something to eat. There is little doubt about it.

And, as is close genetically to the American polecat, and as ferrets need to breed when in heat, there is a danger of genetic contamination or displacement of the ultra-rare American polecat.

I agree that most mammals will boil and turn delicious at 100 degrees

> If you think that an animal living in Moscow can't survive snow, well, think again

I happen to have lots of experience seeing people who have frozen their ferrets, rabbits, hamsters, rats, mice, possums, etc to death. Domesticated ferrets aren't stupid, but they also aren't very good burrowers. Other than finding a nice gopher hole, in the 80s and 90s, a domestic ferret froze to death (still floppy, not solid) outside. Now CA is so hot, they would probably survive pretty well but then die to dehydration and heat in the day even with a burrow.

The problem with animalism is that it has a big, big, blind spot. They see individuals named Harry and Rex, is all that they can see. They are blind to the relationships, the consequences, the animals that aren't cute, and refuse to see the big picture.

But individuals don't matter.

Not for the science of ecology. Not for nature. Is the population and ecosystem what matters.

Individuals in a population die all the time. They freeze, starve or are predated each single night. It doesn't matter.

It doesn't matter if 980 of each 1000 released ferrets die before an hour.

While I agree, the problem is that the Black footed ferret already is endangered AND the legal ferrets have not crept into the ecosystem from beyond the arbitrary lines humans have drawn. So at both the micro and macro perspectives, you have no explosion of population.

Taking a large population of ferrets and putting them in some California farmland and see them die off might be what your conscience requires as "proper evidence", but it's ironically illegal to even perform the test. Much like the CA F&G, it's an ideological problem, not an evidence based one for you.

> People all around CA let their ferrets roam outside and come back in when it gets colder at night (and to get food/water)

Do you mean 'roam' within extremely ferret-proofed yards? Ferrets famously lack a homing instinct and are not likely to find a way home after wandering off, if left outside unsupervised.

> Ferrets famously lack a homing instinct and are not likely to find a way home after wandering off, if left outside unsupervised.

It's common enough that I have incidentally been in the homes of owners, with the glass sliding doors open, where the ferret pet is allowed (and expected) to come back in from a wire fenced yard or open yard^. I've also visited the homes where inhabitants had indoor-only ferrets as well (about 1 of 20 ferrets were allowed out).

My experiences are from the late 90s dorms and apartments ranging Cal State Irvine to Cal State Berkeley. This may be relevant somehow.

^Rabbits (even big lop-eared) that are allowed to roam are the ones who need an enclosed yard, for sure.

I was just thinking about the last paragraph. I honestly didn’t know they were illegal in CA, since I had so many friends that owned them growing up (inland southern CA). They bought food at the pet store, brought them in for show and tell, etc. They didn’t hide it at all.

As apposed to all the other illegal things people do right out on the open?

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