Comment by cmrdporcupine | Hacker News Reader

Comment by cmrdporcupine | Hacker News Reader

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My younger brother had a pet ferret growing up. It wasn't that big. But it had no fear. Our large dog (rhodesian ridgeback X black lab cross) was scared of it. They'd "play" but the dog always backed off.

They only have two modes: sleep and play/hunt. Ours learned to play with us without puncturing our skin, but its play still involving biting and tugging incessantly.

Once a squirrel had gotten into a wall cavity. The ferret knew and paced outside of the wall for days, every waking hour, just obsessed.

It smelled pretty bad. The scent gland had been removed but it still had a musky odor that got through the whole house.

One day it escaped the confines of the house and got over to one of the neighbours. It got into their garage and killed an entire litter of little kittens.

We think an owl caught it not long after.

Their status as pets is a bit dubious IMHO. They'd also be a real problem anywhere near where people keep poultry or rabbits. They're notorious serial killers. Weasels get into chicken coops and slaughter whole flocks seemingly for fun, killing like crazy but actually eating very little.

> killing like crazy but actually eating very little

For a domesticated species it sounds like that is the main function.

That is, it would make sense that humans domesticated multiple species (cats, dogs, ferrets, minks, etc..)[1] to be adept at killing just for killing sake, probably with different niches. Dogs for defense, and all of them able to offer pest control for various sizes of pests.

This is pure speculation on my part however. Any experts care to weigh in?

1 - (dogs and minks killing lots of rats) https://youtu.be/SM4C3_nMN_g

Cats seem to catch mice for fun, only eating one after playing with it, and if they're feeling peckish.

Cats tire out mice and injure mice specifically for eating but sometimes they just mutilate the body, those seemingly playful pats of their paw have a lot of force and can send a mouse across the room. The mouse is taking consequential damage on every swing, which can come in quick succession, and the mouse is not fast enough to escape.

The cats in turn avoid any bites when they go to actually eat it. They could theoretically do something else to kill and eat faster, but its more akin to their long range attack ensuring they take no damage, avoiding any skin piercing infection.

It depends on if it's a fully domestic cat or one that has spent significant time living on it's own in the wild (stray/feral).

I've seen a domestic cat play with a mouse until it's dead, then act like it doesn't know what to do with it. An old stray cat (that had rejoined domestic life but didn't have the energy to catch and play with the mouse) would then get up and eat it in two chomps.

And the middle ground, the barn cat.

The barn cat knows humans, but is also not let inside the house. It is also rarely fed, unless sick, but has the comfort of the barn.

Such cats are often highly efficient, and eat all their prey for food.

I've seen barn cats, when old, fed and kept in nicer surroundings.

This is what cats are primarily for! To keep mice populations down in barns, feedlots, groceries, etc.

at the cat rescue i volunteered at, the kittens who were too feral/fearful to become pets were moved over into the 'working cat' program. they'd be put in the storage areas of the rescue and allowed to roam freely in those areas, but still be near humans and be fed/litterbox trained. then businessowners could adopt them to keep the rodent population under control in their businesses. a real win-win-win situation, considering those cats would likely be put down otherwise.

Hey that's a great solution, everyperson, and everycat wins there!

I had a neighborhood cat that wanted to live with me. He introduced himself while I was working on my truck. He would literally watch me work on my truck. He was always looking on right behind me, even when under the truck. (maybe because mice sometimes hide in vechicles?)

Anyway for months he would leave a dead mouse on the house mat.

I felt sorry for him, and let him stay in the utility room, and showed him how to use a dog door. (I would have kept him, but he ended up having a home. He lived in a 8 million dollar mansion, and was feed fresh Salmon, he hated the dog.)

I found all that out later. I couldn't let him in the house 24/7 because of allergies.

He would sneak in and bring on mice. The mice were so quiet, I didn't even notice them until he arrived.

I found out later he was going to multiple houses daily, and we all spoiled him.

He did want to live with me, but finally gave up.

I think some wild animal got him though. The wealthy family that owned him was devistated. People on that Neighborhood social site condemned the family for not keeping him indoors, but they didn't know he liked his freedom.

He lived a full life, but killed a lot of rodents. Which didn't bother me at the time. Well it kinda did, but rats I just can't live with.

I used to believe all cats should be kept indoors, but once certain cats are used to freedom it's painful to watch them suffer mentally by being inside. I learned where the Tom Cat phrase came from by knowing him.

The thing is that the wanton serial seemingly-senseless slaughter isn't confined to domesticated weasels. Wild weasels do it too. We keep chickens and have heard so many stories of people coming out to find that a fisher has gotten into their coop and destroying 20, 30 chickens and then just leaving with maybe one. Their instinct to kill is so strong and they're intensely efficient at it it seems to go well beyond hunting for hunger.

Yes, cats are a bit like this, too, but not to this scale. And cats are remarkably more parsimonious with their energy usage. They'll beat up a mouse for an hour, and then just sleep like crazy. Or stalk a single bird, and be satisfied with that.

Their instinct to kill is so strong and they're intensely efficient at it it seems to go well beyond hunting for hunger.

I read up on this after our community's chickens were massacred by a fox -- it's called Surplus Killing https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Surplus_killing and here's what's believed the key motivations:

... researchers say animals surplus-kill whenever they can, in order to procure food for offspring and others, to gain valuable killing experience, and to create the opportunity to eat the carcass later when they are hungry again

Interesting. Also gives another reason why roosters so aggressively attempt to lead predators away from the hens and all the hens scatter even though you'd think they might have strength in numbers. Creates a situation where only 1 or 2 will die, instead of the whole flock.

A fox got after our chickens two years ago. Our rooster, a beautiful and gentle Barred Rock tussled with the fox for about 300 feet down to the road (there was a trail of feathers) and then dashed under a passing car which was forced to stop while the fox brazenly circled. All the hens scattered and hid and were fine.

We rescued him from under there and chased the fox away and cleaned him up and gave him antibiotics but the poor guy had wounds we didn't see that festered, he got a fever, and died about 3-4 weeks later despite us doing our best for him.

(Turns out foxes long teeth and mouth bacteria/biome are also engineered to create a situation where prey may die later even if they can't be taken right away. Then the fox can come back later when it's weakened or dead)

I'd never been so close to an eastern red fox. They're usually super skittish but this one must have been extremely hungry and indignant that I took his kill from him. Beautiful creature but I don't look at them the same way anymore.

We planted a lovely native flowering Eastern Redbud tree over the grave of the rooster ("Jacques")

Ferrets were domesticated to hunt rabbits. Literally bred and rewarded to kill prey, but otherwise leave intact for skinning and cooking, generation after generation.

> killing like crazy but actually eating very little.

That could easily apply to humans.

I personally eat any animal that I kill on purpose.

I should mention that I haven't killed any yet, apart from unlucky insects, but if I were to shoot a deer I'll eat it too.

I have yet to eat any of the mice I have killed. Wild house mice smell like death even when they are still alive.

And, can easily be death, thanks to hantavirus: https://www.cdc.gov/hantavirus/index.html

Technically, insects are animals too :)

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