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Comment by arieswar | Hacker News Reader

Exercise, specifically following powerlifting programs. It makes me tired so I can sleep without stressing over what I need to accomplish work during the next day. It also makes me crave healthier food. It's a feedback loop, and it makes me sharper mentally. If I skip 1-2 days, I immediately notice the negative effects by the end of the week: cloudy thoughts, less motivation, etc. Powerlifting also gives me goals to work towards; PRs on certain lifts. It's replaced my cravings for MMOs which I've spent too much of my life playing - It's feels like I'm the character and I'm constantly working on improving my real life stats.

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I vote for strength training in general. I don't follow a specific goal-oriented program, but I work out with weights every day and definitely notice the mental benefits--as well as the mood drop if I miss a couple of days.

I second weight resistance training but emphasizing “powerlifting” probably isn’t the best initial or long term approach.

Find a good trainer (there are A LOT of bad trainers out there) and start working through a routine with simple movements (literally hinge movements).

I’ve been lifting weights for almost my entire life with supervision and coaching by trainers that are former NCAA athletes and Army Special Forces (Green Berets) and I’m still not completely comfortable with complex movements approaching any challenging weight.

I’ve drastically increased strength, avoided plateaus, benefited from increased focus, emphasis on diet, higher resting metabolic rate and the resulting body fat composition benefits while not experiencing a single injury.

Injuries are devastating, especially for beginners and even more so for beginners starting later in life.

Speaking of injuries, I’d question starting with CrossFit as has been mentioned by others in this thread. Like trainers there are a lot of bad “boxes” out there and until you learn the basics and your limitations I’ve been to many CrossFit gyms where the experience, fitness level, and routines have been downright terrifying to witness. I’m convinced that many of the horrors I’ve seen have resulted in people suffering debilitating injuries. Having a beginner fresh off the “couch” be encouraged to stack up weight while doing their first ever snatch (or whatever) is criminal IMO.

Also - remember your heart! I run a 5k (in intervals) at least once a week to not only make sure I can still do it but also to experience the resulting benefits from what is essentially HIIT training. I also believe that as humans running is essentially in our DNA (as bad as the mechanics are - knees, etc). Of course this is another aspect to work on in terms of technique and equipment (shoes).

There are also ways to do HIIT combined with low to moderate resistance training but that’s a bit more involved.

I agree with your evaluation of CrossFit, bad boxes and injury risk, but one thing CrossFit does well is keeping you motivated due to the group setting. I no longer do CrossFit now, but it was the first program I successfully managed to stick with due to the social aspects. Whenever I tried going to the gym by myself previously I would lose motivation after a few months. I think many people who want to start working out have the same experience.

That's why I would still recommend CrossFit especially to beginners - the program that works for you is the one you can stick with. After you've built a habit of working out and lifting weights it's much easier to create your own program and stick with that.

Do note that these mental effects of powerlifting/strength training are mediated by the concommittant increase in circulating endogenous opioid peptides.

These people are effectively using and getting dependent on opioids.

While it may seem healthy at first, the cravings for more lifting can increase until one cannot control themselves any more, leading to constant overtraining, muscle/skeletal injuries, and eventually PAIN which requires actual opioids prescribed by a doctor.

Do you want to guess what happens after a person, unbeknown to themselves an endogenous opioid addict, gets a hold of exogenous opioids?

What the parent is noticing after a couple days of not working out are the withdrawal symptoms.

You could have just said you don’t feel like working out

But then I would have been lying.

That's an interesting extrapolation, but you do realize exercise itself releases the same endorphins as opiates?

Sure, you do go through a form of withdrawal once you stop doing it, but it has nothing to do with opioid abuse.

Same thing makes fast food "addictive" (unnatural levels of salt and fat), caffeine, and capsaicin (peppers).

That is exactly what I was saying. Those ”endorphines”, i.e. endogenous morphines, are opioid molecules and have opioid effects in the human body, including addiction, dependency and withdrawal.

Some do anything for a fix.

Many vehemently deny this and that they like getting high from it.

Interesting that you would compare ”unnatural” food ingredients to the exercise high.

Getting addicted to exercise? Sounds fantastic.

There is a difference between ”exercise” and ”power lifting”.

Cardio is definitely good for you, even though it releases the same peptides. In cardio you progress by going longer.

Lifting is a different beast. In it you progress by increasing weights, because increasing reps does not gain muscle as fast. Each trip to the gym causes muscle damage, which also releases opioids, and it is completely possible to become dependent on that in the same manner that someone cutting themselves becomes dependent on the opioids released by cutting.

Good, get addicted to things you can do to your body that are good for you.

Does that include, in increasing sense of doublethink:

1) using illegal drugs to treat debilitating illness, such as autoimmune disease?

2) using nootropic drugs to increase cognitive performance?

3) using illegal drugs to increase general physical and cognitive performance?

4) parking in a handicap spot to shop quicker and with less stress?

5) speeding on the highway when you know it’s gonna be okay and it’ll cut down an hour of your daily commute that you’d rather spend with your family?

6) smuggling conflict diamonds and stolen gold bars in your rectum to get away from the rat race once and for all?

So how much endorphins are released by intense exercise, and how much are introduced by opioid abuse?

That is a loaded and oversimplified question.

Addiction and dependence are not matters of how much drugs someone has in their bloodstream; they are matters of why there is drugs in the bloodstream.

A terminal pain patient could be having a daily dose of morphine equal to an opioid abuser’s, but we usually don’t consider them addicts, because they have a reason to use opioids for pain management.

An opioid addict could be consuming a quarter of a codeine tablet a day and still be considered an addict, because emotion management is not usually considered a valid reason to use opioids.

For some reason, a lot of people recommend going to the gym as a first-line treatment for various emotional issues. I find this doublethink hilarious.

The only “loaded and oversimplified” rhetoric here is your refusal to consider even the simplest facts of the matter beyond “opioid receptors are activated at all!”

The only “doublethink” is how you claim not to be opposed to exercise in one comment while denigrating the very thought of going to the gym in another, in spite of clear evidence that lack of exercise is broadly detrimental to one’s mental state, rather than your narrative of “self-medication with endorphins that induces dependence and withdrawal symptoms where none existed before”. And claim that some source of endorphin release is good when that contradicts your only rationale for equating exercise with opiate abuse.

I have not denigrated anything except power lifting, which is what many equate with ”going to the gym” in my peer circles. That is certainly a source of confusion here.

It is a fact that power lifting can be addictive, for the very reasons I’ve mentioned. It is not for all people. Those with genetic and psychiatric predispositions (work stress included) are much more at risk.

The risk, however, is very real, and some don’t realize it before they have made permanent damage to their musculoskeletal system and are forced to deal with serious pain issues—and some turn to opioids. THAT is the real apogee of why ”exercise can be a dangerous drug (for some people)”.

Er, yeah, literally all of life is chemically mediated.

Your love for your family is chemically mediated, as is your desire to eat food or get out of bed in the morning.

I guess their point is that in this case the chemicals are addictive.

I have no idea how to view upvotes/downvotes on other posts or my own, but I see this one is greyed out, which I guess means it was downvoted by someone.

Since I don't see a reply explaining why, and it's at least an interesting point of view, I upvoted it.

I always say there is no greater feeling than leveling up in real life.

Can you share what programs to look into to start powerlifting?

Stronglifts 5x5 is really nice for simplicity. Its pattern of continuous, small progression is great for feedback and that feeling of reward.

If you can, get someone to help teach you proper form when you start. It’s much easier to learn once, without needing to break bad habits.

I strongly urge you to either hire a trainer to go over form or, at least, carefully watch some YouTube videos on form. Weight lifting is a wonderful form of exercise and probably the safest when done correctly. However, it's really easy to hurt yourself if you lift too much in the wrong way.

My quick advice is (1) go light at first [nobody cares how much you lift] (2) go slowly and try to feel tension in the correct muscles for the exercise if you don't know which muscles you should be feeling you should look it up (3) go over form very carefully with videos or a trainer

Gotta 2x this comment: hire a trainer. It’s changed my life. You are accountable to someone who is invested in seeing you make progress and get better.

Because I work out three times a week my life is better on multiple fronts, including my concentration and coding.

Two years on I’m down 27 pounds and can do push-ups. I have never been able to do push-ups.

Strong agree. I started with programs like Starting Strength but I regret not working with a trainer earlier. There were so many technical mistakes I made that I never noticed myself. Worst case I would've hurt myself in the future, best case my progress would have stalled due to bad technique. There is only so much you can learn from YouTube videos because you need to know what you're looking for. Nothing wrong with these programs, but having someone experienced correct your technique is invaluable. That's perhaps less the case for simpler lifts like bench press, but I can't imagine someone learning to properly clean, snatch or jerk all by themselves.

If you can't afford to hire a trainer, start with going to a weightlifting group class to learn technique. Even Crossfit is good for that (just don't learn your pull-ups there :)). At least you will have someone correcting you. Once you're confident in your technique you can quite and start following your own program.

Seconded on CrossFit! Every CrossFit gym I’ve been to has a weekly Olympic lifting class, explicitly focusing on proper form and movement.

Also - CrossFit-style pull-ups might be a little goofy, but CrossFit burpees are the way to go. :)

I will third this with a caveat that MOST trainers are either incompetent or don't care. But you will literally save years of wasted time and injury if you do it right from the start. Just find the right person or cross-check with multiple. There is also a program called "5x5" which is ok for beginners. Don't forget to do pull ups and crunches too. The whole "liftings works your abs" enough thing is a myth. Maybe some cardio too.

Starting Strength is an excellent program. Be aware that not all trainers are equal. https://startingstrength.com/ Mark Rippetoe’s book started it all and is an invaluable resource for understanding proper form and how to approach weightlifting - and what to look for if you decide you want a trainer. That said, when I was starting out, I didn’t follow the aggressive weight buildup that many plans suggest. Your muscles will respond much more quickly than your joints, and you have to give them time to adjust. Buy a proper belt (discussed in the book) and consider taking some collagen to help your joints adjust. Slow and steady wins the race.

https://aasgaardco.com/store/books-posters-dvd/books/startin...

He also has videos on youtube demonstrating proper form.

> Your muscles will respond much more quickly than your joints

Funnily enough, when I tried couch-to-5k it I had to pause to recover from shin-splints aka tendonitis.

Now I've started bouldering more than usual, I'm getting climbers elbow (tendonitis) as well as other pains in the wrist and forearm that are not muscle-related.

I'll go against the grain and say don't follow Stronglifts or Starting Strength (although the book is good if you're interested).

The problem with both is that they overindex on squats and on 5 rep sets. You want to get a mixture of the number of reps you do per set, and doing squats as often as they recommend will turn you into a t-rex. Plus, when you fail at a certain weight (which you're bound to do), then there's not the flexibility necessary to help you push through and so you get frustrated. I know--I've been in that situation with both programs.

I've recently taken up GZCLP[1] and I'm very happy with it. I'm already doing, 3 months in, more weight than I was doing on either SL5x5 or Starting Strength, and I'm over a decade older than I was when I did this programs.

[1] https://saynotobroscience.com/gzclp-infographic/

I went to my first powerlifting meet in the early 90s.

The problem with powerlifting is it really beats up your body over time and as you age. Once you get past 405lbs or so for squat you are almost insuring future disc herniation. Disc herniation is a concern with aging even without constantly loading 400lbs+ on your spine. This is patently obvious but when young and indestructible hitting PRs becomes completely obsessive and that is another problem. There are not many things that give the rush of hitting a new PR or milestone with strength. Your strongest pound for pound in powerlifting weight classes relative to your height at much higher body weight than what is healthy. Pull up a group photo of any hardcore powerlifting gym and that will be super obvious. Instagram and people posting PR videos has caused this explosion in powerlifting popularity and conventional deadlift popularity along with Rippetoe. It use to be an almost deviant aspect of bodybuilding for guys obsessed with strength with a disregard for aesthetics. If I could start over I would never powerlift. I would train absolute strength still but I would also focus on relative strength. Relative strength as displayed by the number of pull ups or muscle ups you can do. I would always want to be able to pass the army running/situp/pushup standards. I would mostly squat with a belt squat and trap bar and be very careful about loading the spine instead of the ridiculous powerlifting game of seeing if you can get your legs strong enough to break your spine over time.

I am still under the delusion that you can stay healthy if you never lift beyond near-perfect form. But I say this as someone who has been working out all his life and still only has a 3.5 plate deadlift.

I also stretch religiously, run, and hang on the pullup bar to decompress.

You made a very good note about army standards - they are actually pretty good at ensuring overall health. Especially if you go to SOF with the swimming requirements (Pararescue, SEALs). If someone has anything against the military, Iron Man standards are pretty much the same thing.

As a side note, I take glucosomine for joints. Jury is still out on it, but most doctors feel like it at least doesn't hurt.

edit: Another thing to worry about here is posture. If you are lardotic and you squat or OHP, you put way more pressure on your spine than someone with ideal posture. Contrary to popular belief, I don't believe lifting fixes this. At the very least, you have to worry about form way more.

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