Tantrums. Punish them? Ignore them? Give in? A flowchart would be nice.
A lot of time, a kid throwing a tantrum has just lost control, and the best bet is to distract and divert, not try to resolve what they're tantruming about. Being able to bring their energy back down, instead of mirroring and escalating their tantrum, is key.
I have read a lot of book on child psychology and still never really sure how to handle tantrums and discipline aspects.
But I have also noticed that tantrums are highly correlated with lack of sleep. Which makes sense. Even as adults, we are much more likely to lose control and snap if we are less rested and/or stressed. This is why so many parents religiously stick to a pretty structured sleep schedule.
- tantrums happen to your child
- tantrums are a regulation mechanism - your child is disregulated, their brain is overwhelmed by uncontrollable emotions and needs to flush all the stress hormones quickly to come back to normal
- there is a reason for the dis-regulation. What does the child need that the environment does not provide?
- in the case of a restaurant - yes, take the kid outside, give them undivided attention, give space for the emotions to get expressed and for their brain to self-regulate.
- become curious about the child's needs and see the tantrums as a symptom of building frustration of some needs not being met. Common possibilities are: severely depleted "reservoirs" caused by chronically unmet needs for play, physical activity, the child having control over their body, schedule, activities, company, your attention, solitude, approval, knowing that they matter etc.
- a common situation related to a restaurant is the child's need to roam, run, be physical, loud, unrestrained. One way to have well-behaved kids at the restaurant is to have a kid-guided (they have control), exhausting, loud, physical activity beforehand. You get the point.
Do not try to control (the expression of) tantrums. Extend your best interpretation and create space for the tantrum to quickly unfold so your child can regulate. Change the environment and remove the root causes.
Ideally, the outcome of your parenting is an adult who is capable of identifying what they need before they are in crisis, capable of providing it to themselves, and when this is not possible, capable of regulating themselves.
You need to model all of these, over and over and over again.
Notice what they need and help them meet the need before their emotional state gets too agitated. If a tantrum is an extreme way to "ask" for something - help them meet the need - way before reaching that stage.
Source: my training as a nonviolent parenting educator.
- drop any interpretations of your child's behaviors which see it as malicious. Develop a habit to see all behaviors as (often imperfect) strategies to fulfill a basic human need (https://www.cnvc.org/training/resource/needs-inventory). Try to guess the need and look for better strategies to fulfilling it. If impossible to fulfill the need, provide a framework for regulating the emotions arising from that.
- you will often be triggered by your child behaving in certain ways. These are your triggers and your work. Many of these are trauma patterns installed during your own upbringing. Were your needs prioritized? What is your attachment style? What was your family's style of dealing with strong emotions?
A bunch of resources are listed near the end including NVC parenting videos.
Personally, I always feel de-escalated when people validate my feelings, even if they don't follow my requests.
I would be concerned that by distracting and diverting a child, you actually prevent them from working through the difficult emotions they need to work through in their system.
What helps: Validation, empathy, meeting the unmet core need behind the distress, changing the environment to address the root cause for the distress.
What does not help: adding more stress by threatening the child or pressuring them to control their emotional outburst.
The outburst is the steam coming out of the safety valve.
Smaller kids usually tantrum when they are overtired (or over sugared or something else affecting them) OR because they are trying to manipulate to get what they want. Once you are used to it, you can tell pretty quickly which one it is.
A tired kid needs to chill down to normal and/or take a brief nap. Getting them to a quiet place for a bit is good. At home, usually just their bedroom. Some kids have individual ways we've learned of calming down once we get there. Some are just going to do their thing for fifteen minutes, and then can calm down. In either case, usually less simulation helps. We'll check to see if they've not been getting enough sleep and adjust if needed.
The manipulation kind is pretty easy to deal with. Just make sure it doesn't get the desired results, stay chill yourself, and minimize the noise on other people. Our kids always seem to try on and off for a couple months, but once it clearly doesn't work, they just stop. If we are home we just let them lay on the floor and tantrum away until they get up and go back about life. If we are out, one of us would take them to the car until they are done. Escalating it by escalating it by threats/demands/punishments/drama/negotiation/fear/pleading just seems to fuel the fire.
In either case it's a temporary situation that will automatically resolve itself as long as you don't escalate or encourage it. You don't have to "fix" it. This means you can be pretty chill during.
I think one child has realized that if they escalate it, we stop ignoring them. So instead of going on for hours, they just hit someone or do something drastic like threatening to destroy the TV. That brings in an ultimatum and they can admit defeat honorably. I don't think this is the best way to do it, though.
They get plenty of sleep now - we found that it does cut it down a lot. There's a loop where they're too tired to sleep, always tired because they're not sleeping enough. So it's usually dinner at 6-7, lights out by 9.
We find that being proactive works - "Mommy's going out for a few hours and will bring back ice cream if you behave." But a checklist for defusing tantrums when they happen would be nice.
I didn't see if you mentioned ages which is likely a big factor. I only have one kid that's 3.7 but tantrums have been rare for us; probably just different kids and the fact he get's all our attention but here's a couple things we do and mainly it's about preventatively avoiding the triggers to a tantrum situation
1. talk everything out ahead of it happening so it's not a surprise when it happens, remind them repeatedly, and make it positive
2. when I know Mom will be gone and that might be tough, I plan a few things that are different or fun and we only ever do those things during that time so he is actually excited that Mom is leaving (we call it having Dada/[son's name] fun time). I'll talk about these things during #1 and he'll tell Mom about it when she returns
3. just me, but I wouldn't mention ice cream to my kid until afterwards as a reward for the decent behavior (he wouldn't think about the fact he behaved poorly and would just expect ice cream when Mom got home then it would be WW3, I'd have to then stick to my guns because I never cave in to the tantrum)
4. sleep management as discussed, hunger as well
5. we never ignore it. we shut it down and discuss how that behavior is completely unacceptable. we allow the time for him to calm down, have a time out if it went that direction, then we reflect on the event and have a conversation about why [whatever it was] is happening and why their attitude is not acceptable. our kid responds to being talked to like an adult, we just have to break it down and explain the reasoning and he understands it.
6. a majority of our tantrums are due to his sense of something not being fair. Like if we changed our mind on something without fully explaining, or in an undeserving punitive way. So we avoid this. We strive to be fair in our interactions. See the ice cream example in #3 and proactively avoiding a potential moment of perceived inequity.
7. Communicate a lot. Explain your rationale. Don't be a dictator type parent. I think this is common parenting and takes some creativity/patience to never say "because I said so".
Best of luck to you!
A lot of these parenting tricks/tips, even when they work, are not silver bullets but instead all have an expiration and you have to pivot to something else hoping you built a solid foundation for whatever is next. They work until they don't kind of thing. In that moment, I imagine your Dad was leveling up to face whatever brand of pre-teen/teen rebellion type stuff that was laying ahead
I've been working with children for over twenty years and I would say that it's highly unusual to hear of a child throw a tantrum for four hours at a time. And especially concerning to hear that they're being violent or destroying things in your house.
I would be the last person to try to diagnose someone from a thread on hacker news (and forgive me if you've already done this), but it's possible, I would strongly recommend that you reach out to a qualified therapist for support. It's possible that their might be other issues at play in what's causing these tantrums such as autism, sensory processing disorder or attachment disorder. A qualified behavioral interventionist can help.
I would also be concerned about what is going on when you are not at home. Maybe there is a good reason for them to feel unsafe when you leave the house. I'm not sure who is there when you are gone, but there are so many cases of children being sexually abused by family members and sitters (steparents, uncles, cousins, siblings) and this is something we unfortunately need to be on guard for. I'm not saying this to scare you, but getting to the bottom of what's going on while you're gone could be important.
I'm happy to hear that getting more sleep has helped your family. Sleep is golden! And it's also wonderful that you are explaining things clearly to the kids about when you're going out and when you get back. I am a huge fan of explaining things in the most minute detail possible to children so they understand your need and the logic of the situation.
If you don't need additional help and feel you have this situation under control, forgive me for weighing in. However, if you would like support and knowledge about additional resources to pursue, I would be very happy to speak to you further and be of support. You seem like a very caring and wonderful parent and every parent deserves as much support as they can get in raising their kids. My email is manisha[at]modulo[dot]app Please feel free to reach out anytime
Younger kids generally throw tantrums because they have a need that is not being met. It is possible that they may learn over time that a parent gives them whatever they want when they throw a tantrum, but this comes with time.
I think that whether you're dealing with a manipulative child or a manipulative adult, there is always a need that's not being met, whether that's a need for love, validation, more sleep or a healthier breakfast. Rarely is a young child going to consciously decide to throw a tantrum to get some naughty, forbidden thing. Let's be realistic. THey're not criminal masterminds. These tantrums are rarely pre-meditated.
Why not trust your child, give them the benefit of the doubt and not assume they are lying or trying to manipulate you? I bet if they see your trust, they'll tell you the truth about what's really bothering them. It can be confusing for a young child to try to sort through it all and figure out what they need. So you can help them!
And if you really feel this tantrum is just a ploy to get what they want, then you may have taught them that they did get what they want when they threw tantrums in the mast. Maybe consider having a talk with them about how the past where you simply say, hey, I know that in the past I've given you candy when you cried, but I'm not going to do that anymore because I see it's making you cry more. I understand you are sad and can continue to cry for candy if you want, but I'm not going to give it to you. THe time you will get candy is xyz.
Janet Lansbury did a whole podcast on how to address a situation where a child's emotions seem fake and manipulative here https://www.janetlansbury.com/2021/04/when-a-childs-emotions...
They may have learned it gets them what they want, but there’s probably a good reason they want that thing that can be explored abd they can be taught better ways of asking for what they want and need or dealing when they don’t get it.
They are not malicious
My thoughts: I am a huge believer with children, as with adults to validate people's emotions. And by validating, really and fully accept that they are feeling what they are feeling and there is a good reason for them feeling that way. And really try to understand what is the need they're trying to express so they are fully heard, so that their need is heard. There are few things more affirming than being seen and heard. In no ways does this mean you have to tolerate behavior that makes you feel awful, like huge intense yelps that hurt your ears. It's Ok to say I love you and I understand you are unhappy and I'm sad you are unhappy - but my ears hurt and I would appreciate if they could cry more quietly. It's surprising how when you are honest with kids about how things make you feel and impact you with love, instead of just trying to stop it, that they listen and understand. I say, put boundaries around yourself, not around the other person.
Among fellow educators, we often use the term "unconditional positive regard," meaning that we give children the benefit of the doubt that they have a good reason for what they're doing.
A tantrum is often an unmet need being expressed. Maybe they're tired or hungry.
As much as you're able, I'd encourage you to allow the tantrum if it doesn't affect you or the people around you too negatively. The child needs to work those emotions out of their system. For example, if you're in a movie theater, you may need to take the child out. It's improtant to accept that your child has both negative and positive emotions and that's ok. They don't have to be 100% happy and entertained all the time - that's fake, that's not life. I would start by acknowledging as much as possible with love your child's emotions. "Oh honey, I see you're so sad. Are you sad that you can't have that candy? I know it's so frustrating to not have something that you can't have. It really really hurts. You feel bad. I'm not going to let you have more sugar today because that can hurt your body. I am so sad you're feeling sad. Oh you're so sad. I love you and I'm sad you're sad, etcetera. I'm going to leave you alone for a while to cry because that sound hurts my ears/because i need to work and make money, etc. But I'm right here if you need a hug. I love you, etcetera"
I don't like there to be punishment, but there could be a consequence. I wouldn't give a consequence for a tantrum, because that's them expressing their emotions. But if they make life difficult for others, you could consider letting them know that they are going to be removed from the situation where they are following through
Acknowledging with love is key. But you don't need to coddle either. Calmly accept, validate, try to determine what the unmet need is if you can. Establish a boundary if needed and follow through.
Here is a workshop I did with Deb Vilas from Bank Street College of Education on communicating with children where we talk about validation and 3 point limit setting. It might be helpful to you. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P7ODQAwwKgo
Please let me know if you have any other questions or would like to talk through this with me sometime. I'd be happy to help.
I do really feel you could benefit from Janet Lansbury's podcast and Adele Faber's book though. They give techniques that actually WORK, which is great. It's not just fluff. This compassionate communication stuff actually settles kids down and helps make life easier for everyone. Plus, they don't end up unable to feel their feelings or all bottled up and resentful as adults, or entitled either!