The PocketReform is a made-in-Berlin Linux handheld | Hacker News Reader

The PocketReform is a made-in-Berlin Linux handheld

tuxphones.com

402 pointssohkamyung175 comments

As an author of pinephone keyboard firmware, I spent a bit of time thinking and trying to use keyboard like this. I can say that what hinders portability/serious use of all of these layout designs that try to emulate regular big keyboard is that they try to emulate big keyboard layout. That layout is made with an asumption that you have many fingers available, and that they can easily reach anywhere if you like.

If you have only two thumbs available for typing, that can only reach about half the keyboard each (quite a hard limit!), you realize how asumptions this layout makes suddenly don't hold, and normal things like ctrl+a or alt+shift+1, or alt+shift+any arrow are almost impossible.

Yes, you can modify the shortcuts in i3wm,screen,... (not Firefox, which is quite resistant to modifying keyboard shortcuts by design) specially for your "PDA". But if you just want a portable device you can painlessly migrate your tasks to for a few days a year, spending a lot of time designing shortcuts for your DE, or terminal multiplexer, is not that appealing.

It would be probably more useful if key layout was designed from the start to allow various modifier combos to be invoked by dedicated keys, or layout designed so that more modifiers were symetricaly placed (or something even less traditional, and have all letter/number keys on the right and all modifier/modifier combos/special keys on the left), instead of wasting space on big enter key, or big spacebar (for which you may spend several HW iterations just to make those right and reactive on their whole surface), etc. Due to size, it's usually uncomfortable to press 3 key combos even with the keyboard laying on the table.

Also comfortable position for the most comonly used keys (usually modifiers) is not on the edge of the keyboard. That's really pretty bad for your thumbs.

The layout of these things just needs a lot more thought.

Sad thing is, that if someone would spend a ton of research and thinking on making something usable and comfortable, most people would completely poopoo it as a freaky unusable layout, just because it would look unfamiliar, lol.

> not Firefox, which is quite resistant to modifying keyboard shortcuts by design

Do you have a Mozilla reference for this design principle? I've always wondered about this difficulty, but thought it was just an accident.

Just open omni.js and search around, shortcuts are hardcoded in code in many places. I don't know about design document, just about reality.

Original blackberry keyboard would like to have a word with you. I wish I could find a decent smartphone with the same keyboard "that tries to emulate a big keyboard"

That's a different size and not really meant to ssh over, or control midnight commander, screen/tmux or shortcut heavy DE. I'm pretty sure you'd struggle with such tasks, too on BB keyboard.

I believe the keyboard on this is designed to be typed on like a normal keyboard, not with your thumbs, which addresses some of your concerns. I seem to recall hearing somewhere (possibly in an interview) that the 7 inch size was chosen because it was the smallest they could get with a keyboard that still feels nice to type on normally.

As for the layout, the previous Reform has free keyboard firmware so you can change the keymap however you like. I assume this one will be the same.

For a portable device I'd love to see a layout/controller like this [0]. I owned one for a while over 10 years ago, and while it took a while to get used to it, it was great for typing text. I gave up on it because I rely a lot on hjkl for movement everywhere and symbols for programming weren't super accessible, so it wasn't really all that convenient for my main use case, but I'd use it over any 7-inch physical keyboard (or virtual keyboard, of course).

Personally I don't think there's a good traditional (as in, flat and square mesh of keys) keyboard in those size ranges. For me it's regular keyboard if there's space, gamepad-like at around the 7 inch size, then BlackBerry style if any smaller.

[0] http://www.alphagrips.com/

As far as ergonomics go, a controller-like form-factor is almost definitely the current ideal for a portable, carry-able, holdable keyboard. Obviously just slapping QWERTY on it wholesale may not be the best idea, and doing the R&D for a more appropriate layout or entirely different approach to input could be costly. carriers for phones or other devices could also complicate it. Might be the reason there aren't more on the market? Is there anything like it out there now? I searched around for something like this a while back, wasn't really satisfied with my findings, and haven't been able to stop thinking about it since.

> Sad thing is, that if someone would spend a ton of research and thinking on making something usable and comfortable, most people would completely poopoo it as a freaky unusable layout, just because it would look unfamiliar, lol.

Absolutely. 8-Pen was this for Android. (example video here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q3OuCR0EpGo)

It was absolutely, hands down without question, the most accurate way to quickly enter text into a phone using only a screen. Seriously - I could type at about 25-35 wpm on my phone screen at 100% accuracy, one handed.

They'd done a ton of work to place letters based on frequency and likely combinations to make typing smooth and relatively fast.

No fucking disaster of auto-complete that I have to click to get the word I want, or when you actually have a vocabulary larger than 150 words, but auto-complete is fucking dumb and always picks the most basic option from the path, or when the word you want isn't in the phone dictionary, no hiccups if you want to misssspell something for impact. It was genuinely just the best keyboard I have EVER used on a phone.

The downside? It takes about 3 weeks of practice to actually learn, and most people just refuse to try for longer than 10 seconds.

I still find it incredibly frustrating that qwerty, of all god-damned things, is the input formula we've picked for phones. It's fucking dumb.

Ha, interesting! Thanks for sharing. :)

That's really interesting. What happened to 8pen, the domain is not used anymore. Are there still some implementations around?

just did a quick search and found this https://github.com/flide/8VIM

https://www.droid-life.com/2019/05/30/tbt-remembering-8pen/ mentions https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=inc.flide.vi8.

I remember seeing that video or some other demonstrating that input! I wonder if in the parallel reality where that idea took off people are now using the finger motions as a new alphabet for writing on paper :)

>Also comfortable position for the most comonly used keys (usually modifiers) is not on the edge of the keyboard

As an emacs user, I can confirm this is absolutely the case except on the bottom edges of an elevated keyboard, where you can palm press which is the most comfortable. This leaves out every traditional portable device's keyboard, but keys specifically designed to be palm-pressed on devices like this would be awesome if you could only find a way so it doesn't get pressed accidentally.

Other trick would be to add modifier keys on the bottom. I thought of making such a mod for PP keyboard using a membrane keypad like this:

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005004014867323.html

Pinephone keyboard has extra GPIO exposed on PCB (on my request, because I had this mod on mind, early on) so that this is doable, and I made sure the firmware is safely flashable in field: https://xnux.eu/pinephone-keyboard/ so that it can be extended to support this.

That would add 6 different or 2x3 symmetric modifier keys to the bottom (3 for each hand) in addition to what's on top, and would make the keyboard much more usable for thumb typing.

Why waste 2-4 fingers that are usually resting on the bottom?

I have to find some time to attempt the mod. :)

The Samsung Q1 Ultra was a 7 inch computer than ran Windows 8 as a tablet and had a very nice keyboard layout that allowed holding the device and using half the keyboard from each thumb.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DnzwbTO8FPY

Thank you for the PP Keyboard firmware (and your various other contributions) - I agree i've found this to be the case too. I think a really good solution would just be 1 or 2 shoulder/underside buttons on each side for modifier keys.

Ugh, every time I see a device like this (and even the larger Reform) I'm so tempted. But I learned my lesson form-factor wise with the GPD Win Max: even as a travel laptop it's painfully small after about a day or two of use. And the sad reality is that the performance-freedom tradeoff is still immense. If we assume the best system module is faster than say a Raspberry Pi 4 (which seems optimistic), it'd still get absolutely walked by an 11-year old i5 (e.g., Tx20 generation Thinkpad which are coreboot-able these days).

Any kind of performance-critical stuff is clearly not the point, but it's hard to not think that smartphones have killed off this form-factor/performance tier for good reason. Makes a lot of sense as a Raspberry Pi with a screen and keyboard, but not really as a "laptop."

Absolutely.

I have a clockwork pi devterm, which is arguably on the more usable end of the spectrum.

In practice, the keyboard (and trackball) are much too small and cumbersome to use with joy. Another thing is that despite the very capable hardware (it has a rockchip along with plenty of RAM, I think 4 or 8GB), modern software just has so much latency.

Perhaps we've been spoiled by today's ssds, but even cli software just feels much slower than what we're used to.

Actually I think that old CLI software is a bit faster on SSDs than modern CLI software. I would have to do some benchmarks to confirm this, but it certainly seems to be the case when booting older Linux distros on modern hardware.

I'm puzzled by the devterm, because it seems like if they had just made it the same size as a TRS-80 Model 100, it would have been perfect! Those were certainly portable too! Maybe they couldn't find a big enough screen?

Proof that off-the-shelf panels of the correct dimensions exist:

https://www.reddit.com/r/cyberDeck/comments/uknqz2/for_anyon...

Count me among those who wish the devterm had been made full-size.

I suppose it's not intended to be a laptop, but rather a "communicator" device as they used to call it a decade, and something ago. Small physical keyboard is worse than a full-size, but better than small on-screen one. At least, as far as me experience go. I did a lot of emailing with Nokia N900 (3.5" screen size, phys kbd), I would not do it on any modern smartphone in spite if them being wider, and longer

I would bet that the ortholinear layout and simple button spacebar they put in that device kills any productivity gains you would have with a physical keyboard.

For a device of this size, I would measure productivity gains in terms of accuracy rather than speed. That is to say: I don't expect to type as fast as I would on a full size keyboard, but I would expect to be more productive than I would be with a touchscreen keyboard. Whether the ortholinear layout affects that, I don't know. Admittedly, the small spacebar buttons probably would.

Because of unfamiliarity? A lot of keyboard nerds are now using this style, so to them it wouldn't be unfamiliar.

The UK's Planet Computers already occupy that niche, albeit with a focus on Android (although Linux can be installed on their Gemini PDA and Cosmo Communicator models): I'm waiting on the (long-delayed by COVID19 factory shutdowns and supply chain dislocation) [Astro Slide 5G](https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/astro-slide-5g-transforme...), which looks like an interesting -- if obsolescent on delivery any month now -- smartphone/keyboard/PDA hybrid.

Disagreed on the performance of the GPD Win Max: at least on my (2020) model, it's much more powerful than an older laptop. But I have to agree on the other things: the tradeoffs are a bit hard to swallow. I have been able to make it my main laptop, but had to do some keyboard adaptations (in software).

Yeah, I have a Win Max and I love it. It's the only laptop that I own, but I also have a desktop PC and employer-provided MacBook. When I travel, I bring both laptops.

I've done a little bit of programming work on the Win Max for some of my open source libraries, and it will do it in a pinch, but I mostly use it for games.

I'm really looking forward to the Win Max 2, in large part because of the slightly expanded keyboard.

It depends. I had a Psion 5 (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psion_Series_5) and spent a lot of hours typing texts and emails, and even doing "Excel" things, like creating a table for calculating "pilot things" (weight and balance, navigation). I even had a top-of-the-line 13 inch thin form factor laptop at the time but did not miss it enough, and often preferred to just take the Psion with me.

My current Dell 2-in-1 15 inch makes me miss the correct key when typing far more often than the Psion (who had the glorious idea to squeeze a numeric keyboard on there??? and I could not un-select it, since this device was a replacement for a failed earlier-generation 2-in-1 that Dell could not repair, which still had a normal keyboard). I almost never missed hitting the correct key typing on the Psion 5.

It worked for me because my use cases did not benefit from seeing more. Even the "Excel" tables were pretty small. If your use case benefits from seeing much more screen at a time, such as in programming, such a small form factor is no good. Even my 15 inch laptop often feels too small when using an IDEA IDE, for example.

I keep forgetting about the Psion (the 5 I think). It almost seems as if it got excluded from computing history because it just worked, did well in the little it tried to do instead striving for something more ambitious and then spectacularly failing.

Dad of a friend had one I think, not because he was an eager early adopter of futuristic gadgetry but because he wasn't the kind of person who'd inevitably try to maximise spec sheet numbers per dollar, happy to spend money for nominally "inferior" tech if it just worked. I guess that might have generally been Psion's market segment, and that's all explanation needed for the relatively low visibility in computing history?

I spent ages trying to find a smartphone equivalent of a psion 5mx to no avail. It was perfect for writing.

The fact that theres still high demand for them decades later is telling.

Did you ever use a Psion Series 7? If so how did the typing experience compare?

I'd love for a new Psion-type device to come out. Something that can run for a month on a pair of AA batteries.

The Psion Series 7 was a netbook-sized machine with a VGA screen. Came along just too soon to have wifi and bluetooth built-in, just too late to be competitive with the ever-shrinking notebooks like the Toshiba Libretto range.

The nearest thing to psion devices today are made by [Planet Coputers](https://www.www3.planetcom.co.uk/); their keyboards are designed by Martin Riddiford (the designer of the Psion Series 3 and 5 machines), and with fast charging over USB-C they're as close to what you're asking for as you'll find today.

I think the hardware is great, but I definitely don't want Android or Linux and that screen looks power hungry. A similar form factor running a lighter OS (like EPOC) with an eink or other low power display would be pretty cool but also would likely only have a market of one.

I have the Gemini PDA.

The screen was a thing of beauty, and the battery life was great. Last I used it, I got through a redeye from SFO to ORD without it dying.

I guess we have different ideas of good battery life. I'd like to see days if not weeks of battery life using AA's or AAA's.

I mostly want an updated Psion 5.

5 hours of constant use on the plane used up maybe 60% of the battery.

I could easily go a few days of casual use. But yes, it's nowhere near what you're talking about.

I used a Psion 5 back in the day, and read ebooks on it which gave the battery life a torture test. A pair of Duracell AA cells would last 20 hours without the backlight, and about 7 hours with it.

A Gemini or Cosmo with the wireless hardware turned off and the backlight at about 30% will handily exceed the 7 hours, but not reach 20 hours. Except you can top them up with any USB-C booster battery.

AAs and AAAs are an environmentally wasteful solution: they were great back in the day when laptops sometimes had a mere 60 minute battery life and required a kilogram-sized brick to charge from the mains, but those days are long past.

Your Psion 5 battery numbers sound about right. In comparison, a new Macbook Air can play 18 hours of video on a single charge. Thirty-five years ago, the Radio Shack Model 100 could run for that long on a set of 4 AAs. It should be possible to make an ultra-low power device that can run the Psion 5 apps (ie simple apps) that can go for weeks on a single set of batteries or charge.

I really miss the Psion 5 / Radio Shack Model 100 / eMate class of devices. I think they are still better in some respects than modern Android-phone-with-a-keyboard devices.

The Psion 7 (& Netbook) have IMHO the absolute best keyboards for their form factor. I still use my Netbook for distraction-free writing. It doesn't run on AA batteries but will easily last a couple of days on one charge. At just over 1kg it's effortless to carry about & the shape makes it easy to clutch in one hand. For me it's the ideal note-taking machine.

My dad used a Psion in the 90s to enter data during his milk route. He would get to a farm, and input the temperature and litres of the milk in the device. At the end of the day, he'd give it to his boss who would sync it to get the info. I thought it was so cool that my dad had a portable computer way back when.

I think that's precisely why RaspberryPi made a great move with their 400. If you attempt to build a whole tiny computer, you are constraining your customers in the environment you build for them. If you build a computer into a laptop-size portable keyboard however, I'm free to use whatever screens and devices I want with it. I think it's likely a mistake that PocketReform is trying to go for the productivity market with such a thing

I think this device would make more sense if it focused on a specific use case rather than trying to be a general purpose computer/PDA.

* Handheld retro gaming device, since the only other Linux one I'm aware of is the always out of stock Steam Deck.

* A handheld screen+keyboard for connecting to servers in a data center.

* Educational tool for teaching kids about technology

* Add a modem and mic and sell it as a Linux smartphone for the nerdiest of nerds

What about a handheld Linux device for running vim and hacking? That seems to be the niche it's going for even if they're not saying it. I use my Pinephone for this when I'm on the train and that (which is likely slower than this) is plenty powerful for the task.

> Handheld retro gaming device, since the only other Linux one I'm aware of is the always out of stock Steam Deck.

There is also the "goodness how much delay-causing problems can a single project have?" Dragonbox Pyra. Although the most recent video gives some hope it's finally about to ship (and they're going to make use of the ability to have modular upgrades so the product is hopefully not completely dead on arrival). They have my respect for hanging in there so far despite everything though.

[0] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OX8U7P10_Wo

Holy shit that still exists?! I remember seeing the Pandora back in like high school or middle school and even then people were saying it would never ship. Since they’re working on a successor, I guess they did eventually start shipping at least some units…right?

I'm fascinated, ongoingly by a Linux phone. I spent effort making many versions of the Sharp Zaurus cellular(ish) back in the day, even going as far as writing a sync tool for Evolution back in 2003. I'd love a Linux cellphone. My needs are very simple, and I'd love to know the state of anything that can (and with stability).

1. Be a decent phone (voice, sms) 2. Contacts/Mail/Calendar sync 3. Run android apps that require voice (Telegram, Signal, WhatsApp, etc)? 4. Take pictures + videos (not even at a high level) 5. eSIM

Everything else is gravy. But those 5 items are the base requirement that I personally have for a phone. Every time I dip in, it's at best unclear.

What you want is an Android phone.

Which Linux specific features do you want though? Those features you listed seem available on iOS and android too.

I want the freedom to do whatever I want, and however I want to my machine. I can do all of this on my Android(s). I can install debian on my Android with x11 in a sandbox and work if I need to (and have). But what I want again - is freedom.

I want to be able to replace my desktop. I don't need much power (most of the things that require performance I do on a remote machine anyway), so being able to do whatever with my phone on the road and then plug it into a monitor and have a desktop Linux would be perfect. The pinePhone can do but it cannot switch from Android to Linux that readily and also, I don't need much power, but the pinePhone is just really not good enough for anything I use a smartphone for (which is not calling).

The single msat resource-intensive GUI app I have on my laptop is Firefox. (The second, Emacs + language servers.)

Without a way to discard and resurrect applications, the way Android does, I don't think a device in a mobile phone form factor could last for a reasonable tine.

> Without a way to discard and resurrect applications, the way Android does

Well, there obviously are handheld devices that are underpowered and definitely are not even close to any modern Android phone, like for instance, the OpenPandora. And yet it was (probably is tbh) capable of doing everything I needed for many years (I used it while travelling into 2019) without issues. Which includes browsing. It's not comfortable because it's so slow, but it works and I rarely have anything crash on it (which is why i'm very surprised the pinephone is so crash prone) while I worked extensive periods on time on it (the battery life is amazing and I can replace the battery); when travelling, I code on 9-12 hour plane rides on it.

And before that, there was the Zaurus, which also had no issues like this; it ran fine on very constraint hardware. I took it on my travels to the US to work on (and send photos from my camera sd card to my family back in the Netherlands) about 20 years ago with a linux distro on it. That was definitely phone form factor. Lovely machines actually outside the keyboard (but still better than without keyboard).

It seems very possible to me to make a good experience on a handheld in a mobile phone form factor, because it has been done.

Modern phones have gigabytes of memory. A normal Xorg DE with typical desktop apps does just fine these days (I know, because I run fluxbox on my Pinephone. I'm on it now in fact with a number of apps running including firefox with 6 tabs open.) What you're saying was true in the days of 512mb phones but those are long over and modern Android couldn't fit there anymore either.

Memory may be relatively plentiful, but CPU is not, if you want decent battery life.

This is why suspending and re-activating applications smoothly is important. There must be a standard way to tell the app: "you'll stop executing in 5 seconds, save your state" and "you are thawed after a long period of inactivity". I suspect that this may already be present to support sleep and hibernation.

OSes have done this since before Personal computers. If you write a garbage app that's being scheduled more often than it should be you'll write a garbage app that gets thawed out more often than it should be. All of this Android crap doesn't actually solve any real problems.

On Linux, when your program blocks waiting for an event (from Xorg, its tty etc) it uses zero cpu. That's why you can leave well written apps open on a device like this. I've run out of X11 Window IDs (there's a cap in a #defined constant if you check the source) because of this. My laptop from 10 years ago had excellent suspend and the OS was very stable (I often went half a year without powering it off.) Since I have a habit of accumulating Xterm windows I would eventually open more than the limit. This never noticeably affected battery life because if they're just sitting at any sort of prompt they never get scheduled (except to redraw damaged portions of the window.)

I don't think what people actually want is a "linux phone". IE, something that runs a semi-conventional linux userspace.

I think what they want is a privacy protecting smart phone built on open source components. Also, Android is based on a driver and BSP model that is quickly going to be replaced with Fuchsia/Zircon

I want my mandated banking apps, voice calls, Telegram, WhatsApp, OSMAnd, Street View, SMSes, Firefox, an email client, one day of battery, WiFi, in a smallish form factor (let's say a bezel less original iPhone SE) and light (that phone again.) I don't think I'll ever get that in a not Android, not iOS phone.

If by "not Android" you mean "without Google", then I'm happy to report that I've been using /e/OS for over an year without any major issue, which I believe was possible to install in some of the Sony "mini" models.

I don't like bezel-less. I have to carefully grasp my phone not to drop it.

Yeah, with bezel-less there's also the issue of accidental touches

> mandated banking apps

> I don't think I'll ever get that in a not Android, not iOS phone.

Of course not, those apps nowadays do on-device checks in the TrustZone environment to verify with Google’s servers that you’re actually running a phone that’s approved by Google with a supported OS version in a supported configuration. Customization? Competition? Who cares!

> Street View

Considering just how much Google has tried to hurt Windows Phone by not supporting it with their own apps and services and even preventing others from making Windows Phone apps for their services, you’ll definitely never see Street View support on a non-Google non-Apple phone.

Your issue isn’t one that can be solved by open source volunteers. Your issue is one of monopolies and control.

> Also, Android is based on a driver and BSP model that is quickly going to be replaced with Fuchsia/Zircon

That is the hard truth and the reality of it all and what is most likely going to happen.

I mean the whole motivation for Google to sink money into Fuchsia is not to diversify into the embedded space it is obvious they want full vertical control from the Zircon Kernel all the way up to user space.

A lot harder to degoogle if your device is nothing but google...

> they want full vertical control from the Zircon Kernel all the way up to user space.

Of course, I have been saying that for years.

Contrary to the 'Fuchsia is only an experiment', 'Fuchsia is going to be shut down' coping crowd, in fact, Google has been much further than once thought with developing Fuchsia and it is going to start with replacing Linux with Zircon in ChromeOS next, probably in 3 to 4 years.

Also explains why they already have the Chrome browser running in Fuchsia. So there is no doubt that they are intending to use Zircon in ChromeOS.

Without any proof, all you're saying means nothing. Fuchsia is, at this moment, nearer extinction than mass adoption.

I think that makes sense too, and don't think that kind of "control" is necessarily bad. I've often written "dependencies" myself even though existing solutions exist so I have (full) control over them, and can do exactly what I want with them. I was reading an interview with SQLite creator Richard Hipp the other day, and he said pretty much exactly the same. It gives a lot of freedom.

> I think what they want is a privacy protecting smart phone built on open source components.

I don't think so. If the smart phone was about protecting privacy, the amount of functionality that has to be disabled (or rather: not there) has to be insane.

Seems a SFOS or Murena or Fairphone smartphone might suffice (not sure about eSIM). I am sure the Planet Cosmo Communicator and Planet Astro Slide have eSIM. With Waydroid you can even run Android applications on a Pinephone. What I like about Pinephone and Librem 5 is hardware killswitches. There's also the Steam Deck, it runs Arch.

All of these have different pros and cons. For example, some of these don't have a keyboard (which you may or may not care). But all have BT or USB and therefore could use a keyboard.

I ran LOS + microG on FP2 for a while, but back then without Gotify and Gotify-UP. With these I believe you can have notifications with top control, without using the Google framework.

I would like an Android portable 'phone' (I never call but want mobile internet) that can switch to Linux when in 'desktop mode' (so what Samsung has with DeX but then Linux), built on 'open' hardware. Fully open would be the best, but I know this is not (yet) possible.

The Astro Slide is the closest I have seen to the form factor I want (I had (and still have; they all work still) all versions of the Psion back in the day), but, while it runs Linux, it cannot easily switch between them and the hardware is not open.

I am really not very interested in 'as flat as possible'; replaceable batteries would be great, as would switches to physically switch off comms/cams be (like the pinePhone has but I would like them more easily accessible).

DeX had an Ubuntu 16.04 desktop in a container, developed with Canonical. It was beta and run on Galaxy Tab S 5e and few other models. It was discontinued with the upgrade to Android 11.

Ah! I did not know that; I only used DeX a few times. But yes, something like that indeed. Shame they always discontinue things like that. I understand it, but still a shame. We need more diversity and Android simply isn't productive enough for me even though it's getting very close. I prefer Linux anyway for the customizing, so the combination would be excellent.

I used it primarily as a great ssh terminal, better than any Android app I used so far (but ConnectBot is good). I worked on a Rails and on a Node app on there, fixed a server for a customer when in a hotel on the other side of the world.

I'd rather reverse the setup. Linux first with phone calls and SMSes, an Android emulator or whatever for the apps that nobody will ever develop for Linux (banking OTPs, etc.) But I don't feel optimistic. I think that the only reasonable chance is that today's hardware (which is good enough even for mid level phones) will get so cheap and firmware so available (FOSS or supported) that somebody will use it to make a decently sized and light phone with Linux.

An idea I had for this is a case that would fit two identical phones. Old models that have good Linux support and are cheap - say, the OnePlus 6t. Plenty of performance. One can run Linux (hell, people got Windows x86 running on it, it even runs old AAA games, wow), the other can work as an Android phone. Or both, mix and match, software is up to you.

It can work as a mini laptop, dual screen tablet/phone thing (cheapo Galaxy Z?), multi SIM phone, desktop computer (via USB), other use cases. It's niche, you can buy two used phones, arguably more "green" than a new device that needs new hardware, etc.

The case itself would have to be high quality, with a custom hinge design, otherwise it would be kinda shit. But it can likely still be smaller and cheaper than PocketReform for example, even if you integrated a battery and USB/HDMI hub.

If anyone builds this, I'd love to contribute.

Why is eSIM a requirement for you?

The Sony Xperia 10 III with Sailfish meets all of these requirements except eSIM. If you wait ~1yr, the next Sailfish phone should support eSIM. The Sony Xperia 10 III Lite is the first Xperia to support eSIM, so it seems likely that more models of the next generation will support it. Note that if you want eSIM because you really want dual SIMs, there is a dual-SIM version of the Sony Xperia 10 III.

https://shop.jolla.com/

I wish these projects would spend a bit more time on their marketing. The shop.jolla.com site requires you to login before you can view details about any of the items for purchase; they probably lose 90% of users right there. There are no links or descriptions pre-login to what Sailfish X actually is.

When you google for "sailfish X", the first link is the incomplete one above. The second link goes to a 404. The third link is the official sailfishos.org site, which has one sentence of description: "Sailfish X is Jolla’s officially supported downloadable version of Sailfish OS for selected devices." followed by a link to the above incomplete shopping site.

I get that this is a market for techies right now, but even so they're losing sales just by a lack of focus on basic usability in their web presence.

I love these odd devices. Not because I actually want one, but because diversity in personal electronics is important and the more there is the better the chance I'll get my dream device, which is a modern version of the Xperia play.

This article is already a few months old, Lukas just made an update today about the pocket reform:

https://mntre.com/media/reform_md/2022-06-20-introducing-mnt...

An OLED screen, a mechanical keyboard and a trackball are all cool ideas for hardware but I feel like software will be what makes or breaks this. Without a lot of low level tweaking I could see that 8000 mAh battery draining a lot faster than in an iPhone.

I hope it succeeds though - would love to see a future where viable open source alternatives exist for mobile on par with what we had for desktops and have for laptops.

As long as rtcwake works with memory suspend you can stretch the battery pretty far. That's essentially what Android does anyway.

> I feel like software will be what makes or breaks this

This is pretty much the case. The Linux community attitude seems to be "build the hardware, and the software developers will come" - with pretty underwhelming results (which you can attribute to a lot of things, but I attribute to most developers who get these devices building toy apps instead of libraries, tooling, and documentation).

All these devices look as if the Psion 5 never existed. And they look old on arrival compared to that.

The Psion 5mx really felt like something of the future.

I had a 5mx. Bought it for a business trip where I was making up an order from a wholesaler while examining the merchandise. Invaluable tool. Would have taken me a whole lot longer without it. Found it in storage the other day. Swapped in new batteries and turned it on and it lit up with no problems.

Check the Astro Slide. Their entire collection is inspired by the Psion (and using the same designer I think), but the Slide looks like it could be a modern replacement. I was a big fan of the Psion.

The similarity in the name to the lube brand has to be intentional, right?

Link: https://store.planetcom.co.uk/products/astro-slide

I had a friend who spent a year traveling around the world in the mid 2000s who said this was the absolutely perfect writing device for his blog. Nobody cares to steal it, and the fact that two AA batteries can power it for 10-20 hours means you don't have to worry about running out of electricity even in the most exotic of locations.

There's a whole lot of devices like this around at the moment but the keyboard layouts are painful.

Their brand is "no spacebars included", but it absolutely rules out any serious use.

Good catch on that. It looks like there's a single regular-sized key for space, like some kind of fever-dream spacebar. :)

Since it's hackable, I wonder if there's a way for the author to produce and ship a long spacebar that can be switched out for four or five of those keys at the bottom. I assume he has control over everything from the keyboard firmware to the OS, so it seems doable.

It is, just like the regular full sized MNT reform. You can reprogram the keyboard firmware (or even get a different PCB made as some people have done for the regular one). Part of the limitations on the layout is making it fit in a standard size while using off the shelf keycaps. The full sized reform only uses 1u and 1.5u key caps so the row spacing is off, but it eliminated having a bunch of odd sizes. Which also meant the space bar was split in two. Honestly for such a small device there's always going to be compromises in the keyboard. Either excessively small keys, or non-standard layouts. Just look at any of the UMPC offerings from the late 2000s, the Pocket CHIP, or even more modern ones like the GPD handhelds.

I'm currently using a 5x12 keyboard as is. I think seeing it in a smaller form factor is wonderful.

One advantage to designs like this is the thumbs get to press more keys (2-3 each). I imagine that especially with such a small device, taking up a lot of space when the thumb is just going to press the spacebar in the same place anyway is a poor design choice.

Maybe with the smaller form factor, there'd be more benefit to 'splitting' the 10 alphabetical columns so they're each on the outer 5 columns, which would mean the hands have more spacing between them.

A couple of years ago I moved to the same ortho 12x5 layout on a full size keyboard with single key for space. The space was easy to get used to (my old keyboards had a worn patch on the spacebar where it was always hit!), but the non-staggered keyboard is a lot more of a difference. Sensible for saving horizontal space though.

Keyboardio does this, works great for me.

In addition to the spacebar issue, the fact that the rows aren’t shifted, which by row 3 means the Z is below the Q instead of below the W, will make your brain melt.

Some people actually prefer that layout too, it's an orthographic layout, which is likely less confusing that the slightly off layout of the full size reform. On the full reform the second row is 1.5 units over rather than 1.25, and the third is 2 units instead of 1.75. It messes you up a little at first, but you get quickly used to the layout and even switching back to standard is not an issue.

Many handheld devices in the age of physical keyboards used grid aligned qwerty keyboards, so it's not unique here.

> orthographic layout

I think you mean "ortholinear". But yeah, I use a 4x12 ortholinear as by primary keyboard. Took a week or two to get used to, but I prefer this alignment to the usual staggered one now. With staggered rows I always felt like I was kind of guessing where certain keys were. Now every key is either under one of my fingers' resting position, or one key away from one (if you count diagonals as one key distance for tab/return).

I love that they included an ortholinear keyboard and open schematics. Definitely keeping my eyes on this.

I really like this thank you!

Back in the PDA days and even with blackberries, I always loved having a phsyical keyboard and the "flip phones" like the HTC Touch Pro 2 wher hands down my favorite phones.

Now that everything else under the sun is dead and there basically only remains android and ios, I can tell you with a high probability that apple is never going to give me anthing like the HTC Touch Pro 2 ever again :/

I firmly believe -this- is the ultimate form factor for a phone, and the only reason I personally can get away with my iphone, is because it does autocorrect for what it thinks I type on the touch display.

I have the previous Reform and I’m very much looking forward to this one! It’s definitely an odd device, but in a charming way. (I use trackballs on all my other devices so it’s appreciated here!) And I like that all the schematics, firmware, etc are open for anyone to use. I don’t know of any other laptop on the market like that.

Trivial nitpick: In the photograph, the phone is displaying the message, "... and repairable by yourself."

If your goal is to use traditionally correct grammar, use "you" rather than "yourself".

More info here [0].

[0] https://www.chicagotribune.com/lifestyles/ct-xpm-2012-09-05-...

English Grammar is arbitrary and there is really no such thing as a "correct" form, only a formal one. Which is kind of elitist and disparaging imo.

Ain't is my favorite example. It was considered proper English until the lower class started using it [0]

I'm not against formal grammar but to grammar nazi everyday language is to be nothing more than an elitist pedant who presumes form to be more correct than function (which is only true in creative writing imo)

[0] https://www.etymonline.com/word/ain't#etymonline_v_8076

If your point is to critique my comment, then I think it's misplaced.

Note what I wrote:

> If your goal is to use traditionally correct grammar, use "you" rather than "yourself".

I don't think the article applies to this idiom.

See for instance https://www.collinsdictionary.com/dictionary/english/by-your...

> by yourself

> PHRASE

> If you do something _by yourself_, you succeed in doing it without anyone helping you.

> "I didn't know if I could raise a child by myself."

I'm afraid I'm not following your point.

My understanding is that "yourself", "myself", etc. are reflexive pronouns. I.e., they're used when and only when referring to the very same person as the sentence's subject.

The examples you mentioned fit that pattern. The message on the computer screen doesn't.

Sentence verb: to be

Who is being by somebody (the subject): you

Who is the subject being by (the object): yourself

The grammar in the original sentence is correct, you're just getting confused about which word is the verb. "Repairable" is not a verb, it is an adjective.

Another way to phrase the same sentence would be "by yourself, you can repair the system". Another phrasing would be "you can repair the system when you are by yourself". You would not say "by you, you can repair the system".

"Repairable by you" is a different, also grammatically correct sentence, with a different meaning. "You can repair it" and "you can repair it on your own" (aka "by yourself") mean two different things.

The subject of "the phone is repairable" is the phone.

If you want to say "I think the phone is repairable by myself" it's grammatical, but strange because people don't usually think with assistance.

subject: I

verb: think

object: the phone is repairable

adverb: by myself

edit: I think I'm agreeing with you, but I couldn't tell what you meant by "the original sentence."

I thought that the article you posted didn't really apply to the phrase "by yourself". The examples quoted there sounded much more grating to me (using "myself" as the subject of a sentence for instance).

I'm certainly not in a position to argue in favor or against the question if "by yourself" could ever be "correct" grammar in the passive voice. An easier question would be whether "you can repair it yourself" sounds cleaner than "it is repairable by yourself". And there I'd certainly agree.

> > "I didn't know if I could raise a child by myself."

I/could/raise (by myself)

Instead try:

"I didn't know if a child could be raised by myself."

Child/could/be (by myself?)

It's the difference between "you could repair (by yourself)" and "phone could be (by yourself.)"

Thanks for sharing... didn't know about reflexive bit. Always good to learn something new ;)

I've been a long-time Linux user, but I couldn't care less if my mobile device runs it. Linux is just a kernel. I care about the functionality, UX, whether it followed ethical materials sourcing and assembly. It's great to be able to say your hardware/software is open, but it's not much use if it's a pain to use.

In the promo video, at 0:46 (https://youtu.be/cxcB45K-24k?t=46):

"It runs all the free software you need to get your work done". Then proceeds to show Neverball, Cataclysm: Dark Days Ahead (a roguelike game), and either Minecraft or Minetest ;)

i hope that the screen is as modular as the rest of it. i am looking forward to swapping an aelectronic paper display, black and white or color.

to the people writing off the keyboard, i don't think you know what you're talking about. it takes maybe a day to get used to this layout, and ortholinear is much more logical and comfortable than what most people are used to.

the people complaining about the space bar are the most confused. wide space bars ourr a waste of space. you don't touch the whole thing anyway.

some people have commented on shortcuts being in the wrong place, but this is also flawed thinking. for copycut and paste you can use your right thumb to press the modifier key or control.

i just hope this is not too big to use with just two thumbs. my dream device is some keyboard wider than a blackberry style one. i miss my sidekick.

I am now serving in Ukrainian army and have to say something like this might be tempting in theory: no requirements being top performance, no need for camera etc

The sad reality is that windows and x86 are a requirement due to a few specific software solutions, but I can see how this can become a go to for at least few kinds of users

Got a few this kind of pocket one. From Sharp Zaurus, the version before transformer And in fact still waiting the transformer to be delivered.

This one is great as a linux box to link to I hope, as I am still trying to find one.

But it is a valid question raised in the linked article - where is the space bar. In fact you used to (other than some Japanese box) to have a big shift of the qwert not squarish.

With that I think the user interface is ignored by the designer and would hurt them later.

Personally I just use them as a lisp in a box for my ipad and hence it might be fine. Hence I would look into that as the old linux box is broken and the new one stil not delivered.

But please whilst not everyone like Steve job, someone should sit and think like him on how customer use it. Please.

I would pay the price of an iPhone + MacMini + Apple Tax if I can have an iPhone that turns into a MacMini when I connect it to a USB C dock.

The M2 is there. Why can’t we have this?

Because then you wouldn't be buying two (or even three devices).

You can, of course, opt for a Samsung Galaxy phone and have that today, right now.

Yeah, I think people don't appreciate the fundamental shift since Jobs; Apple is no longer an innovative company. I don't mean that as an insult, just an observation. "Taking chances" is not what they do anymore.

I had a HP200LX back in the day, it was a great little machine and I taught myself rudimentary C primarily on it and have often yearned for a modern replacement.

> If we assume the best system module is faster than say a Raspberry Pi 4 (which seems optimistic), it'd still get absolutely walked by an 11-year old i5 (e.g., Tx20 generation Thinkpad which are coreboot-able these days).

The GPDs come with actual intel Core based processors, not even Atoms. It would be interesting to see, but they probably are miles better than a 11 year old laptop CPU, they even advertise them for gaming.

The choice of CPU appears to be some kind of deranged Euro-mysticism, as if making a portable in Germany with a Dutch CPU will somehow improve their privacy.

I mean, it has nothing to do with where the hardware is from. It has a lot more to do with, say, the lack of questionable "features" like Intel Management Engine, and actual open specifications and broad support from existing open source drivers. Rather than speculating, read more about the choice of processor here: https://www.crowdsupply.com/mnt/reform/updates/re-introducin...

Edit: consider the fact that two noteworthy open-hardware-focused products are coming from a similar region of the world is more an indication of their understanding of the importance of privacy and openness, rather that some kind of "deranged" motives. :)

Looks a bit like the 'Netbook' form factor that was popular 10-15 years ago. One thing makes me skeptical when looking at the design: it seems like quite a lot of the hardware is packed into the 'display' rather than the 'keyboard' part (can't tell where the battery is from the pictures), which might make the base a bit unstable.

Good point. I'm wondering whether they intend on placing the battery in the keyboard compartment, and perhaps carry the power wires next to the hinges.

Can't really tell from the CAD renders, but I can imagine there may be some space still left there.

see also, the famous nokia 9000 and communicator series

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nokia_9000_Communicator

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nokia_Communicator

I love the idea of these, but why one device vs usb-c mechanical keyboard + tablet. That combo of Plank keyboard + iPad Pro has proven absolutely killer for me as a portable and highly flexible work studio (design, write, Jupyter, and ssh-Ing).

> Plank keyboard + iPad Pro has proven absolutely killer for me

Consider sharing your setup to https://www.reddit.com/r/ergomobilecomputers/ , I've been doing similar with a Linux Tablet PC and a detached keyboard as my only machine after my MacBook died a year ago.

Roller ball mouse? I guess there isn't much room for a trackpad but those roller balls accumulate dirt and get janky pretty quickly. A trackpoint such as on ThinkPad keyboards would be better.

It looks like it has a mechanical keyboard. I hope it's not loud, because any use case I can see for a device like this is pulling it up in a bar or café and firing of some quick stuff.

Many mechanical keyboards are loud for a quiet office but would be hardly noticable in a louder place like a bar or even cafe.

I've followed on and off what Lukas has done over the years since the Amiga expansion board he did a few years ago, lot of fun projects, we should all do more of this kind of stuff.

From the article and the purchase link:

Dimensions: 20 × 12.6 × 4.5cm

Price: 1099 EUR

It's an interesting initiative to be sure, but it doesn't fit in your pocket - neither physically nor financially.

Pricey for what it is.

I'd buy an old Thinkpad and put Linux on it.

Or maybe get a Steamdeck.

But still - important project - so I hope they can make it a success and they've done their market research.

This isn't even the same product, they posted a laptop, not the MNT pocket, hence their wildly different dimensions/specifications

https://shop.mntmn.com/products/mnt-reform

Ok thanks for clarifying. I thought the EUR 1099 price tag was for this pocket computer (PocketReform).

You can't have read the specs of the product in question, or the laptop product you've found.

https://shop.mntmn.com/products/mnt-reform

I am very tempted by this but what is going on with that spacebar? The older I get the more I realise that what I really want is an updated Psion 5.

Something like this?

https://store.planetcom.co.uk/

No affiliation, just a (mostly) happy owner of a Gemini. They don't seem to sell those anymore and I can't vouch for the other models but they look nice too, I guess.

Steam Deck seems like a better fit for most use cases.

Was thinking this too, it doesn't have a physical keyboard but it's got USB-C and all the rest.

Got mine 2 weeks ago and have been absolutely loving it, feels like I've had it for years because it runs regular Linux just like all my other computers.

I miss my Sharp Zaurus. I'm glad we're finally getting something like them back again, along with 20 years of added tech!

Wouldn't you want the hinge either in line with the lid(traditional laptops) or shear force applied by lever arm(MacBook)?

I was like “who would really use this?” then I watched the video and by the half-way point I already wanted one.

there is also dragonbox pyra[0], which has been very very slowing coming out of the cave.

[0] https://dragonbox.de/en/45-handhelds/pyra/

Is the code that runs inside ARM TrustZone open source too? Especially ROM code.

I think it is to the extent these boards can be booted without TZ, which probably depends on which SOC vendor is used.

The ARM Trusted Firmware is what typically runs in the secure world, and it is indeed open source: https://github.com/ARM-software/arm-trusted-firmware

ROM code generally speaking is not open source, but has been dumped on occasion.

Ok, that's better than their laptop! OpenGL ES 3!

.... it has the exact same slot and SoM selection as the laptop.

Sure but I cannot order the laptop with OpenGL ES 3...

I'm not going to buy anything before I can get what I need...

It's a bit weird to call a future product "better" when it being "better" relies on availability of a SoM that you'll also be able to get with the Laptop when it becomes available. I very much doubt they'll sell the Pocket with SoMs they aren't also selling with the Laptop.

A 3D API specification released in 2011, based on mobile hardware from a decade ago, what an achievement!

OMG WANT.

Miss my old Sharp Zaurus.

I still have quite a collection of Sharp Zauruses (Zaurii?) in a box somewhere.

It's so hard to believe how badly Intel fucked that up, first omitting floating point altogether when they replaced StrongARM w/XScale, then selling it off to Marvell just when mobile was becoming interesting. I digress...

I do too, a C860, pretty much new in its box. But I can’t find where to download software for it as it doesn’t have a working OS anymore. Any tips appreciated.

That's something I've been meaning to spend time on eventually but never get around to.

Maybe post somewhere on https://www.oesf.org/forum/index.php?board=179.0 and see if anyone is still paying attention?

You have an SL-C with corrupt firmware in 2022!? That's hard mode.

There is a service menu that can be loaded by removing the battery and then plugging in AC while D + M is pressed down[1]. That lets NAND backups made and restored. This menu was brickable too.

If that menu wouldn't load, an alternate pinout serial cable in conjunction with a command prompt flash tool can be plugged into Option Port 16 to load software, or so I think I heard in 2ch, definitely more than a decade ago. I vaguely remember the tool had camelcased name with an H, like HummingBird or HamsterWheel or something like that. If you need the full NAND files, they were not openly shared, nor the stock ROM loads were publicly distributed. Maybe pdaXrom custom firmware still has mirrors somewhere?

Another factoid I remember is that the internal NAND was NOT wear leveled and the device could become unbootable if Kernel section of it become worn and unerasable(not unwritable, but erased bits comes back down apparently). The recommendation was to not touch the Kernel unless absolutely necessary, and a special minimal chainloader was used to relocate the Kernel if it's too late... that chainloader is probably lost to the Aether long ago.

If "working OS" is so meant that the stock GUI and 2.4 kernel is simply outdated and no longer relevant, there were X/Qt XFree86 server app, Debian and Gentoo chroot filesystem zip somewhere, VNC and RDP client apps, PPP supports and few other options. swapon/swapoff binaries existed and worked. There could have been total replacement ROMs like a Maemo or Gtk-based GUIs but I don't remember any details about them. At best they must have been incomplete.

1: https://mobile.k05.biz/e/2015/08/service-menu.html

trisoft still hosts ROMs:

https://trisoft.de/en_c860howto.htm

Find other models linked in the left sidebar.

I used to use pdaXrom distribution on my C860. Brings classic linux experience. Seems like pdaxrom.org doesn't not provide images anymore. Quick googling gives https://distro.ibiblio.org/pdaxrom/download

Everything since the Zaurus has been a regression.

So, what's the use case for this?

Too expensive. The Chinese should create a clone for $100/100 EUR.

Linux handheld devices are mostly just toys for people a bit too excited and with too much disposable income.

There might be a couple of uses, such as IT admin or on-location surveyor, where having a very small device with desktop functionalities and ports to plug in instrumentation could be useful.

For the rest of us, smartphones really hit the nail of what people need to do with a pocketable device: the interface has to be simple, the features cannot be extensive and the battery should last quite a bit. I bought a PinePhone because I think it can succeed in being a smartphone with the right software, but I would never waste money on glorified PDAs because they seem useless to me regardless of their capabilities

Never heard of this company but it seems they had the misfortune of launching an Open Hardware laptop around the same time as Framework but with a far poorer design.

MNT made a mint on their CrowdSupply campaign, which launched before Framework was available. The devices address completely different markets.

For what it's worth, we're glad to see MNT building the Reform and now PocketReform. We don't consider them competitors (especially in relation to the colossal incumbents in the PC space) and are happy to see them championing open hardware.

The MNT reform came way before the framework.

Note that the framework isn't completely open source, it runs an Intel CPU so it's by definition running a proprietary blob.

When it comes to MNT, this guy went as far as reverse engineering all SD card drivers, writing his own HID drivers, writing his own display drivers, implememting u-boot support for flashing the BIOS etc.

Look at his github profile, it's kind of insane how he never gives up. [1]

It's pretty serious in terms of being able to claim it's 100% open. I mean, even the batteries are standard ̶L̶i̶-̶I̶o̶n̶ 18650 LiFePO4 cells that can be replaced without soldering or anything. [2]

Whereas with the Framework it's basically "just get a new mainboard" the very same as Apple's laptops are "repaired" these days, which I think is a shame...and they could've gotten much much further if they really wanted to.

In terms of practicality though, it's always the RISC vs Intel debate. Different markets, different expectations.

[1] https://github.com/mntmn?tab=repositories&q=reform

[2] https://mntre.com/reform2/handbook/parts.html

For reasons of safety: they're LiFePO4 batteries, swapping in Lithium Ion would be hazardous :)

Touché, you're right. Changed it :D

Besides safety they have the added benefit of significantly longer lifespans (charge cycles) compared to Li-ion. The downside being their lower capacity. The high capacity LiFePO4 in the reform are current 1800mAh (it might be 2000 on the new cells they swapped to after supply issues of the originals). Which is fairly low for a 18650, but not terribly worse than the 2500-3000mAh of li-ion 18650 cells.

The Reform is a fantastic design, uncompromising. Every single aspect of it was engineered to maximize openness, user choice and longevity.

Reform is far more hackable and open than Framework. Just using Intel puts you at a great disadvantage in openness, whereas the Reform uses a Freescale ARM CPU.

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