A Response
caspercloudwalker.bearblog.dev
caspercloudwalker.bearblog.dev
He'd probably do well to find a local group where he can regularly listen, sit with emotions, reflect, talk, and be challenged if he tries using his intellect to deflect from sitting with or reflecting upon said emotions.
In any case, I'm relieved to read that at least for the time being he has turned down HN's free access to a wall of zero-cost comments from pseudonymous engineers who voted up their favorite ways to problem-solve depression from first principles.
I did not get this feeling. Sometimes a bit of isolation and retrospection is enough to realize what your real priorities are. Things can be deprioritized without acknowledging a superior priority, and that's okay. As we go through life, we change, people change, our surroundings change, and sometimes all of the external things change for the worst around the same time and that's just how life goes.
Noting these deficiencies doesn't outright indicate someone is depressed and could indicate progress. Most people with any amount of deep introspection explore these possibilities, and I think that's healthy rather than living in fear of having to process uncomfortable truths. Sometimes we dig deep enough to find those truths werent as true as we thought they were, and that's progress.
Or at least, it quacks an awful lot like a duck with depression.
Just skimming to two parts in the second to last paragraph, these two sentences, "I am often desperately looking inward to find the strength to go on", and "Accepting a constant stream of low quality things for most of my life, including interactions with other people, only contributed to the way my life has gone and the way I feel now" were really striking to the author's day-to-day. It sounds like he' struggling to doing what he needs to do and they're content with the way this is. We should want more for ourselves and for our relationships to have meaning.
There are some difficult life transitions (real-world problems that are never going to go away) that can cause long-term feelings of grief that overlap clinically with depression. Maybe you need to take the time to process those feelings. Or maybe you don't have that luxury, you have bills to pay, so you're going to medicate those feelings away.
(Or maybe everything is fine, and there's just something wrong with your brain. But that's not for Internet randos to decide.)
So even in the optimistic case where, lack of diagnostic training notwithstanding, A ==> B, even then observing B does not necessarily imply A.
Which probably is part of the reason you shouldn't diagnose people over the Internet based on their posts, but via a diagnostic process actively involving them.
What you have stated in words is rather more like, in the modal+temporal logic sense, "it is possible that A and then B" (temporal 'then'), not "if A, then B" (logical 'then'), which is how I read A ==> B--unless you meant, as I think you didn't, everyone experiencing A will do B.
This is what capitalism odes, it always puts the burden on the individual. No, there is nothing every wrong with how we structure our society, never.
I am sure you could name some groups you would not find it pleasing to engage with...
For sure I can imagine someone getting to a place where they feel gaslit by dysfunctional society, many must be in this boat all the time, the world is a challenging place. Should we not offer them a friendly hand, if they’re open to it?
I often wonder if modern society is truly happier than past societies, but then wonder if I’m only thinking that because I’m depressed, and most people probably don’t wonder such things?
Life is certainly more complex than it has been in the past, and I don’t know if we’ve adapted to really handle it yet. It seems unlikely.
Of course there are many objective metrics that suggest we should be happier (life expectancy, infant mortality, etc) but maybe we’ve just moved the goal posts?
Are these kinds of thoughts limited to depressed people?
Rates of mental health disorders haven't changed much during the last 30 years.
https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/gdp-vs-happiness
I'm glad they wrote it, because it has not been suggested to me that I need to "be challenged if [I] tr[y] using [my] intellect to deflect from sitting with or reflecting upon said emotions". I very much identify with this statement owing to a life of using intellect as a coping mechanism for emotions that I have been told I'm not supposed to feel. I also have work to do.
Edit: typos
If someone writes that he is sneezing, has a sore throat, runny nose etc., are we allowed to infer that he has a cold?
That reason is partly so that they can be recognized as doctors. Making an observational deduction has nothing to do with medicine nor imitating a doctor, per se.
In the case of a suspected cold, it’s perfectly reasonable to keep one’s distance to try to avoid catching it, whether the supposition is correct or not.
Suspected depression? Harder to say, but at minimum I hope that appraisal engenders understanding and compassion. I think gently suggesting someone seek professional help is reasonable. I also think we have a tendency to overly pathologize perfectly normal mental states, however, and especially if (as the OP states) a person appraises themselves to be OK, then suggestion should not become insistence.
This is not support for your previous sentence. A large portion of doctors' training consists of making sure they will treat someone with a runny nose for a cold before they'll even consider other explanations.
I'm not saying the person we're talking about is depressed (or that he's not), I'm just commenting on what you said.
>My ideas, my attitude, my life story, the difficulties I currently have in functioning- all of these things make me too different to fit in anywhere for more than a singular moment.
How could a social network be built to find the few people who think alike when that group doesn't have well-established labels?
I think your parent's point wasn't "these are the wrong first principles to bring to the attempt to solve their problem", but rather "no-one who's only read this post is in a position meaningfully to try to solve their problem" (setting aside whether that's even the right goal).
Such as offering the "clinical" diagnosis that he is depressed?
How are you this confident? Who convinced you that you're right in any sense of the word?
Seems like you're projecting extremely hard. He is not you.
> In any case, I'm relieved to read that at least for the time being he has turned down HN's free access to a wall of zero-cost comments from pseudonymous engineers who voted up their favorite ways to problem-solve depression from first principles.
Maybe there's a hint of self-reflection here.
He claims that he holds views antithetical to what most believe, and that he feels isolated. However, he keeps 'the next part of the sentence' suspiciously absent.
Made up examples of 'the next part': 'I feel like no one shares my views or even thinks the same way as me. For example, I really enjoy tachyon physics. The problem is, the theory has fallen out of favour and it is hard to convince people to discuss the point.' Or 'I have no one to talk to. The last time I tried, I witnessed a friend be seriously hurt. Every time I try to approach someone, I think of that experience.'
In short, he doesn't give enough detail for his statements to hold meaning.
I can't really say why he does this. It could be a pride thing, or a disorder, or just not thinking to explain further. It's not the core point I want to focus on.
Whatever the reason, my issue is that he is surprised people are reading in extremist or isolations. However, affective language (is that the right word for it?) is almost designed to do that. Giving details is the best way to avoid the problem.
If you are reading this Mr Casper, please be specific about why you feel the way you feel.
Writers have a responsibility to ensure that they take reasonable steps to ensure the accuracy of their statements, and that those statements are clear.
The alternative of doing so is to state that public writing is of no consequence and that writers should be held unaccountable for their own actions.
This is obviously in contrast to the popular opinion, and for good reason: if you cannot disagree with a piece of writing, it limits your ability to engage with it.
Therefore, because his examples of alienation (to borrow your term) are incomplete, OPs omissions are an issue. While its true it conveys his base point (he's alone), it is difficult to answer any helpful questions around the point.
Examples of questions we can't answer: does the world need to change or him? Why? Would that help? If he isn't bothered by the state if affairs, why the melancholic tone? Is there more to the story? What initiated this isolation?
Regarding the 'sharing what one is comfortable sharing' - I would normally agree, but again, the tone makes me think a point resides somewhere. Therefore I think that's not the core issue.
What a crazy take. Writers can write whatever they want. A book of poetry or prose doesn't have to meet some HN rationalist level of accuracy and rigour.
Said another way, there is no law that forces me to write in English. I could interleave uncommon French and German across this comment (borrowing terms from other languages is nothing new!).
But if I flexed language proficiency without regard to which words are commonly known, it may make my comment less accessible, and therefore you may choose not to engage with what I'm saying or respond. That might not be a problem for me, but regardless the decision is my responsibility.
The responsibility for clarity does not come from someone else - it is an extension of the decision to publish.
This does extend to prose and poetry by the way. Both are written to conventions within the disciplines and follow patterns. Those patterns are very different to ordinary speech but they are certainly there, and readers judge writers on those merits.
It isn't to say a writer is lesser as a person for writing out of convention, but the convention provides a framework to interpret the art. If the convention isn't broken for a meaningful reason, it can detract from the wider message.
This "accountability" rhetoric conjures up an image of a one-man tribunal, hastily set up in the middle of the public square, demanding that passers-by submit to judgment.
Accountability goes both ways. Maybe you should provide an account for why you feel the need to hold others "accountable". Why not just ignore writing that you find too vague to be meaningful to you?
I didn't write the original post, so my comment is geared towards addressing that, rather than expositing my own views. In a similar way, your post is geared towards criticising mine, rather than justifying your own engagement - that's perfectly normal.
But, since you asked, I hold others accountable in the same way you do now. It is because I recognised behaviour I do jot agree with and I want the person to engage with the criticisms I have made and (hopefully) change their mind.
Framed this way, it is a constructive activity, not some tribunal activity as you describe. Again, if you cannot disagree with someone, you are very limited in how you can engage with them.
Walking up riverrun, past Eve and Adam’s, James Joyce scoffs at your banality.
Lewis Carrol, astride a frumious bandersnatch, ignores tiresome linguistic catechisms such as yours, enjoying his frabjuous — and well-deserved — literary immortality.
Lewis Carrol used absurd scenarios to engage his child whom he wrote for.
The exception proves the rule.
Taking such a condescending stance (over what amounts to be etiquette) is ridiculous. It's not unusual, or even rude, to make an ask in a discussion-based forum. Ofc the choice to engage further, is voluntary.
No one force him to do that... but that's what happens when he doesn't. You aren't forced to wear seatbelt (well bad example, as the law actually force you, but enough doesn't so my point still stand) but once you get into an accident, you'll be happy that you had it.
OP explains what happens when Casper is not specific enough... what Casper does with that information is up to him, but clearly, not wearing that seatbelt is hurting him right now enough to write theses blog spot.
I spend more time than I should reading extremist content (ok, go ahead, look at the username) because I think the behavior of that crowd is fascinating and disturbingly influential. And sometimes it's funny. Also, they now set US policy, so maybe we should be paying attention.
> I will clear it up now: I am not any kind of incel, conspiracy theory believer, advocate of violence or racism, or follower of any dogma, philosophy, or charismatic person of any kind.
When people talk about "alt right pipeline", this is it, but casper isn't the perpetrator. He's the target.
Ok, not casper specifically. In those circles, they'd make fun of him blogging about his feelings for obvious reasons. Then they'd make fun of his artsy picture, then that he took down his picture, and once more if he puts it back up. The cycle of abuse would continue until he stops reacting to the crowd.
But it's a window into just how isolated people are and what it feels like to not have community. And we know there's millions or maybe tens of millions of people that feel this way and are nowhere near capable of articulating it.
It's so easy to imagine someone in his position be enticed a movement that has a consistent-ish ideology and purpose greater than yourself. And as a bonus, it comes with a group of regular guys that also hang out on discord or telegram all day and share memes. They might even meet up in the woods sometimes, just to drink some beers and bbq and shoot some guns once a month. Or "protect" an election or school board by providing "security". You know, community stuff.
> No, I am only interested in something real, whatever that may be.
So few can cope with this emotion by blogging about their feelings. For a lot of people "blame the others" seems to be the easiest way to cope with this feeling.
(Also, archive.org still has your picture up, either fix your link or remove the broken img tag. You just look like another @jack clone anyway and nobody cares.)
> But it's a window into just how isolated people are and what it feels like to not have community.
What do you mean by community? I see this word everywhere online, and never really understood it. I think it's mostly an American thing, but I'm not sure. I can see how someone has family, friends, acquaintances from work or hobbies, but I don't get what's meant by "community".
The hallmarks of community IMO are some shared values, some shared purpose, recurring interactions, united under some named banner. A well functioning workplace can feel a lot like a thriving community.
I don't really have much in the way of community myself at the moment, but I have experienced it before. I think it's one of those things like sex where everyone who's never participated thinks it's a huge deal, but once you've been at it a little while, it's still important, but the framing shifts a lot.
It's one thing to be a stable loner that's not invested in any group, but it's another to desperately be seeking a community without the experience to know what's "normal". That's where the parasocial stuff starts happening.
Some of us were on imageboards when pools were being closed. I am sure there's a number of people that don't understand that 'glowies' isn't meant to be serious, but a reference to someone who also used to post on hackernews. But I can assure you, at least pre us politics, most got that it was just dark humor.
Just like I will not accept that pepe the frog is some hate symbol, I will not accept that image boards are an alt right pipeline. If there is such a thing, they're mostly quarantined to a politics board. Who cares? Dont look at it if it bothers you.
Then I tried getting a job and that forced me to meet a lot of new people, challenges, develop new skills. And it sucked and I smelled like a kitchen.
Didn’t solve my depression.
I didn’t meet anyone I identified with until I was like 33, when I joined a high tech company where I interacted with a lot of very creative and talented people. Then I realized I was actually very unique and the people I got along with were extremely rare.
Later, I also realized after significant research that I was high on the Asperger’s type spectrum plus ADHD.I learned I have to seek out very complex and varied situations which were challenging and highly stimulating.
Suspect this guy is wasting away because he may be similar and just bored completely out of his mind. Unfortunately, life does not help you much.
If you feel happy programming in isolation or whatever, there is no one to kick you in the ass and make you leave your house and do things you don’t want to do. And maybe accidentally meet new people…maybe.
More and more it feels like you have to create some completely custom lifestyle, maybe travel to conferences, music and events or do something risky.
If you made the mistake of buying a house in some super boring location with nothing going on, and in a location where very creative, intelligent, talented and motivated people hang out - you end up like this guy.
I can’t judge, I have been there several times.
I realized: “you know what, I am not happy because I need to be optimistic or exercise or whatever…my life literally sucks, I have no friends and I have no idea how to fix it.”
If you are in that situation, you might need to spend six months or more getting out of it, move somewhere better, switch careers, get new skills, take risks. No amount of creative writing gets you out of there.
In a kind of similar vein, I did some write-ups in the past where I analyzed controversial people and thought I'd do so without weighing in with my personal opinion on them.
So then I basically got a bunch of emails from socially-frustrated readers looking to relate to me as their new comrade, because we were both obviously fans of these controversial people.
It seems there are a lot of socially-frustrated people out there who don't read between the lines, and who also don't believe it's appropriate to even do anything that's in between any lines, so to speak. So I wonder if this is related to the social frustration...
I am asking seriously; what did you criticize?