Comment by 88840-8855 | Hacker News Reader

Comment by 88840-8855 | Hacker News Reader

Hold on, let us be more precise than the Western propaganda wants it to be.

1) Russians have money

2) Russians signaled that they want to pay

3) Again, Western sanctions are hitting against the own people, Russia cannot pay because the West excluded them from the payment mechanism

4) Russia has set up its own payment mechanism and is ready to fulfill the payment obligation fully in Rubels

5) The risk for all Western people is now to claim that money as financial trades with/in Russia are illegal now and they will face punishment by the West

Just a sad story. My wood pallets supplier here in Germany went bancrupt a few days ago as the product was coming from Russia and is sanctioned now. The house (with 35 units) is already 6 days without hot water. The company that manages the building got an alternative: delivery in 2 weeks, price +200%.

This is not my war, I oppose those sanctions. I have the feeling that the G7 reaction is wrong and I disagree with it. I am SO CLOSE before going on the street for the first time in my life. I FULLY disagree with all the current Western anti-Russian politics.

First think ever to happen that make you mad enough to protest is sanctions on nation that violently attack their neighbor?

I very much hope you will feel same pain as people of Ukraine do right now, because people like you never understand anything they did not feel themselves.

You and the fellow below calling parent a “cretin” because they are complaining about their bills will be in for a rude awakening if the prices and inflation explode.

Heating, food, housing are among the most basic needs of a human. If they’re in danger, you bet that the pain of people that they’ve never met, thousands of kilometers away will be less important.

This kind of moral absolutism is out of touch with reality.

There are people who literally go there to risk their lives and die. Many of them from thousands of kilometers away.

Why do you assume I'm more like you then them. Not everyone dwindles in face of danger.

Getting involved in foreign wars is something that the great majority of private individuals won’t ever think about, because it’s a terrible idea.

So Russia should be able to invade anyone they want without repercussions? We obviously don't want a direct war between Russia and NATO/EU countries, so economic sanctions are pretty much the only tool left.

Russia should be punished in the same way Europe has punished the US for its aggressive invasions.

Anyway, I will protest against this if the government cannot fix it asap. My friends have voiced similar opinions.

And your point is wrong. We ARE already in a direct war with Russia. And it was our decision.

Can you explain why you think that?

According to your logic, given the atrocities committed by your country in the past, the more Germany suffers, the better.

Well if anything there are pretty much no clean hands on that regard: https://www.wikiwand.com/en/United_States_war_crimes

The US has set a high standard, nothing like napalming Vietnamese villages in case some guerilla fighters happen to be hiding there. (Or what about airstriking a busy highway and then releasing a "non-ideological" videogame blaming them CCCP/Russian Federation for it)

Even on just the political violence side: https://www.wikiwand.com/en/United_States_involvement_in_reg...

If past atrocities are an excuse for any current ones we will never improve things.

I would also consider this a somewhat different situation than e.g. the unjustified Iraq war as this is a plain invasion for territory.

We are told that we have rules in the world that nations have to follow. Breaking rules means punishment. That's the theory.

People like me feel sold for fools when there are double standards.

I will disagree with the Western reaction as long as countries like the US are not paying their fair share for the atrocities they have done.

And you argument is not valid at all. "At least the Americans were bombing those brown people for demoncrency!!"

500.000 dead kids!

Albright, the “passionate force for freedom, democracy and human rights”, thought it was all “worth it”.

https://www.aljazeera.com/opinions/2022/3/25/lets-remember-m...

Russia started the invasion in the past, so starting the war is off limits now, right? Are you also saying that killing people is ok only when the attacker does not want to take territory? It’s more justified when there are fewer reasons to attack?

Typical whataboutism. Somehow you people manage to discover the USA as a counter argument to everything bad that is going on in the world. If you want to compare apples to apples, then go ahead and tell what has Ukraine invaded so that it deserved being invaded back by Russia? Don't make up your own rules and then play by them.

Ukraine was turned into a hostile nation to Russia after a second USA sponsored revolution in 10 years. The first time it just resulted in gas wars, but the second coup government really started a war there.

> Typical whataboutism. <

Typical response to a clear indication of a hypocritical behaviour devoid of any common standards and equalising principles.

> If you want to compare apples to apples, then go ahead and tell what has Ukraine invaded so that it deserved being invaded back by Russia? Don't make up your own rules and then play by them. <

Ukraine wholly supported the US in their invasion of Iraq in 2003, and did send its 5th and 6th mechanised brigades to aid their ally in a war started under a false pretense [1][2].

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/5th_Mechanized_Brigade_(Ukrain...

[2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/6th_Mechanized_Brigade_(Ukrain...

So, you are saying putin is somehow selflessly taking revenge for Iraq 20 years later? I'm curious because to the rest of the world it looks like just another attempt at occupying a sovereign nation.

no, that's not my point. I'm saying let's not pretend that there are no double-standards around the current situation, the current victim wasn't that much concerned about their moral stance not so long ago, as long as it was beneficial to them to aid their military ally in a similar oppression of a weaker state. And no one dared to sanction them.

Strawman arguments and whataboutisms are unproductive to the conversation. 2 wrongs don't necessarily make a right.

I'm not from US. My country is also sanctioning Russia. My country was not part of any invasion - actually was occupied before by Russia before. Where is your god now?

The only sanctions that matter come from the US, Germany, Italy, France, UK, etc.

Eastern Europe and the Baltics are just following the lead of the big boys, similar to how a well-behaved child looks to their parent for approval before doing something.

> Eastern Europe and the Baltics are just following the lead of the big boys

This is completely out of touch with reality: Eastern Europe and the Baltics are leading this, not following.

The US was planning these sanctions end of 2021. One can assume that they were planning them with the countries which have something to sanction. i.e. Germany, etc.

If the US and Germany wouldn’t be in, the rest of the sanctions would be worth nothing.

Right, we don’t want the world to end.

Do we want double-digit inflation and 4x-6x-?x heating prices though? If only the EU actually had a plan instead of throwing sanctions at the wall…

The debt is denominated in USD not Rubles, if it doesn't get paid in USD then it is not paid at all, people don't want Russias manipulated Rubles.

> This is not my war, I oppose those sanctions.

Did you oppose Germany's excessive reliance on Russian gas?

The gas is clean and a fantastic bridge energy source until we ramp up renewables.

Instead we will now import:

1) overprices, extremly dirty American fracking gas - that might lead to unrests in the US if the price is increasing further

2) LNG from Qatar, just another bad state with a long track of terrorism support and human rights violations

But for some reason 1 + 2 are OK now.

> The gas is clean

You cannot be serious. Gas is a fossil fuel that emits CO2, huge amounts of it. Germany's overreliance on gas is among the reasons why their CO2/KWh is multiple times that of neighbouring countries (bar Poland who are still on coal).

And a fully renewable grid will be too unstable without significant storage. Are there plans in Germany for that?

Germany actually fucked itself on the energy front, by opposing nuclear.

How is this not your war. You are very clearly in range, and as evidence shows so far any civilian is fair game for Putin's army.

Germany was Russia’s biggest customer, why would they even dream of attacking them?

Of course, now that the EU have firmly positioned themselves, Russia may have revised its relationship to Germany. It’s not excluded that they’d completely cut off gas, sending Germany and the EU into a deep recession.

But on the positive side, I think Mr. Scholz, Mr. Macron and their peers will not have issues with heating or putting food on the table. We have to stay positive and remember that this is all for a good cause though and supporting good causes is what the EU exists for.

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