Documenting Aramaic before its native speakers vanish (2013)
smithsonianmag.com
smithsonianmag.com
The way I came to look into this history is interesting. As an Arabic speaker I was curious about the last name "Martoma" which was in the news some years back (for insider trading). It sounds like Mar Touma which is Arabic for St Thomas.
I wonder how many people identify as St Thomas Christians in India?
I would highly recommend Ariel's book, My Father's Paradise. It documents the life of his father being born into the poor and uneducated, but happy, Jewish community of Kurdish Iraq, being stripped of his property and exiled by the Iraqi government as part of the Jewish exodus in the 50s, and going from a refugee to a PHD in Linguistics from Yale.
No need for them to be babies. That will work as long as they're younger than 12, and probably for a few years after. But if the kids have already learned to speak another language, they will hate this approach.
The way to fix this is to find them things that only exist in that language and not in English. It could be other family members, friends, TV, music, time abroad, etc.
Kids, like adults, need motivation as the primary factor that determines success learning a language.
I'm living in the US: I always speak Korean to my teen kids and they mostly answer in Korean, so they have no problem understanding phrases like "When is dinner today?" However, because they've never been to school in Korea, they basically have zero knowledge of Korean words for, say, "descendant", "ambassador", or "independence", while being totally familiar with their English counterparts.
It doesn't mean your points are invalid, but in general people like your kids are just going to be way better at learning language.
IMHO, it's almost cruel that many colleges expect all students to fulfill a 2 year foreign language requirement, even if they have no prior exposure or education. You end up with language learning that is watered down and generally a waste of the learner's time, in addition to making their education more expensive.
I agree it might often be a failure, in say, achieving fluency. But certainly no a waste. Exposure to foreign languages, and their cultural contexts, can be very enriching, especially the more distant they are from your own culture and language family. And the contrast with your own language and culture can teach you much about your own.
Most people would get way more out of studying a culture and its context by directly studying that and in way less time. This time saved one could spend as 4 semesters of specialized cultural studies, one full cultural study abroad semester, or learning about other things (comparative linguistics?).
There's also the idea that you can only fully appreciate works of literature in their original language, but learning Russian to appreciate Dostoevsky is overkill and many people love his work who don't know the language. Learning about other cultures in translation is arguably going to be superior since any translation you can do is with skills way below fluency.
Speaking to them in your native tongue isn't going to make them worse at English if they're growing up in an English-speaking environment.
Kids have an incredible ability to learn languages, given motivation, and they don't need to go to school to learn words like "accountant" reading books will do.
To me, giving your children a second language is an incredible gift. Setting the pathways in the brain that separate concepts from the written and spoken representation, the abstractions of different grammars, etc, is very valuable. And something that I have really valued as I grew older.
But I (superficially, of course) understand perhaps why you'd like curate their experience of something you took fairly extreme steps to escape. That might well be the greater gift.
Appreciate your perspective -- thanks for sharing.
https://www.unesco.org/sites/default/files/medias/fichiers/2...
How to Save a Dying Language (2013) - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20557429 - July 2019 (16 comments)
How to Save a Dying Language - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9366347 - April 2015 (3 comments)
This contrasts to Hebrew, which some say was a dead language, but was the living language of jewish law correspondence and jewish law / biblical exegesis, even when other languages were the day to day vernacular (ladino, yiddish or the like). People like to say that hebrew was a dead language before the modern hebrew movement, but that's not quite fair. It wasn't a day to day language of the streets, but new things in it were being written every day all over the diaspora. Basically, those who say it was a dead language are demonstrating their bias against religiously oriented texts and communications.
Aleppo was an amazing city with rich linguistic diversity and rich musical tradition of several minorities. With Aramaic mixed with Armenian! All the inhabitants used to sing along in one neighborhood, each in his own house when one musician starts a tune, other neighborhoods would compete with their own musicians it was a magic experience that I was not lucky enough to witness. The Arabic dialect in Aleppo is very distinctive though, we used to make fun of it in TV series and in daily conversation. Some other Aramaic words Martini: Mar means the master, and Tini is the fig, meaning the master of figs, , the shiah: the one who works by melting, and Touma: the twin. Al-Bajuq: They are based on the effects of Al-Bajuq and use it to mean bad mouth.
You could have just replied with your second sentence… but you have an agenda.
It definitely isn't. Tons of people think Arabs are actually native to Egypt, Syria, Iraq, Palestine, etc... or that Turks are native to Turkey/Anatolia. Most Americans and Western Europeans have no clue about the history of Christianity in the Middle East and Turkey, Arab conquests, etc... Or the fact that Christians were still a majority in a Middle Eastern country within the last 100 years.
History is full of migration, conquest, and everything in-between. I always find it a bit odd when people go on about "the Islamic conquest" when your own "native" culture's history is probably not that dissimilar in broad lines.
> Arabs are first mentioned in Biblical and Assyrian texts of the ninth to fifth centuries BC where they appear as inhabiting part of Syria. Proto-Arabs are presumed to have originated from what is now modern-day northern Arabia, Jordan and southern Syria. Over time, Arabs spread further out sometimes replacing previously spoken Semitic languages.
Of course people came from all over the place, by your logic the Japanese are Chinese, the Koreans are Chinese, Indians are central Asian, Greeks and Romans are Arabs, Native Americans are Polynesian and Latin Americans are Spanish.
Or from a higher level just for rhetorics sake, everyone is African.
It's not that it's politically incorrect. "Most" people just don't care, except of course when they can use it to get internet points.
The fact that Arabs occupy their current geographic distribution through conquest and migration is not some hidden knowledge or politically incorrect fact. Anyone who has access to wiki can know about it. I've never met anyone who wanted to die upon that hill.
But like I said above, western education only teaches about places westerners have been or touched. There is zero history taught about China, India, Southeast Asia, Africa or literally any other place besides Europe or the United States unless it relates to an interaction with westerners.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pact_of_Umar#Content
Very clearly establishing non-Muslims as second class people, with all kinds of onerous limitations on their everyday life.
Calling this pact "protection" is technically correct, but then, the Protectorate of Bohemia and Moravia in WWII was a Protectorate as well.
I would call this document "subjugation of unbelievers who serve as your tax base, so it doesn't make much sense to kill them outright".
The Copts exist today because of the Muslims, this is a fact, even if you try to twist the meaning of what I wrote. They are to be treated well, and with dignity, and their rights preserved.
Secondly, I don't see what makes them "second class citizens", not to mention that even wikipedia acknowledges discrepancies in the points they mention.
As a matter of fact, several Jewish and Christian historians and figures clearly expressed that they would rather live under a proper Islamic rule as it offers them better quality of life compared to secular modernity: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bc6yXYR01Vg&t=6s
Another observation: portions of Maronite Catholic mass are conducted in Aramaic. The prayer books are typically in Aramaic and Arabic side by side.
Unfortunately, most of its inhabitants left after the 2012 civil war, or to a small percentage died protecting it against other islamist factions. Source: I'm from there.
There was this Yiddish/Hebrew program for the Mac, but the programmer died and nobody has the source code and it stopped working.
Make it free or open source so it can continue with the Aramaic language.
Can always run it on a VM unless it requires connection to some server to function.
A translator program might be an interesting project in some other ways, and I guess technology might help some people get involved with the language or help bridge the gap. A translator doesn't really solve the problem, though.
The Irony: the Neo-Assyrian Empire was the greatest empire ever, for its time. They destroyed the kingdom of Judah and the first temple in Jerusalem, drove the Jews into Babylonian captivity. Now who are among the last speakers of the Aramaic language?
(I guess I'm assuming, first, that there is a reasonably sharp distinction, and second, that Aramaic falls into the "language" category.)
All languages start as dialects, and the point at which they become a separate language is arbitrary, more a matter of opinion than a hard rule.
Languages are created by people speaking another language badly.
Having an army is a sufficient but not necessary condition.
One can use "variety" to side-step the whole problem: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dialect
There are plenty of mutually unintelligible dialects and plenty of mutually intelligible languages.
I looked up some examples of Appalachian on YouTube, and I can follow it surprisingly easy – much easier than I would have expected after reading this thread – as a proficient but non-native English speaker. It's certainly not a different language; I have more trouble understanding some dialects in my native Dutch.
There is absolutely a grey area where things start to diverge, and this is where politics and the (self-)identification of the people who speak the language(s) can come in to play. Classification is always hard (see also: defining "species" of animals), but a blanket "it's a political question, full stop" is far too strong and hand-wavy.
Keep in mind that many of what we today consider distinct languages historically formed a dialect continuum - usually geographic, where you can observe gradual changes as you travel, which may add up to the extent that there's no real mutual intelligibility between the beginning and the end of your path. Are they different languages at that point? If so, what does that make of all the gradual steps in between?
The stark language boundaries that we're more familiar with today are largely due to states aggressively encouraging (or outright forcing) some kind of language standard on what was before a dialect continuum area, smoothing out the differences within it while sharpening them at the borders. This process kicked into high gear with the rise of nation-states, which would often do so for ideological reasons - basically, to force conformity and reify the abstract notion of "one people". But it hasn't happened everywhere to the same extent as it did in Europe, and there are still plenty of places around the globe where clear language boundaries don't really exist.
Afrikaans is almost readable if you know any germanic languages but English.
None of my Irish friends really speak Irish for example, in spite of being taught at school from an early age. Not that Irish is "dead" by any means – there are still parts of Ireland where Irish is used in daily conversation – but it's a good example how you need more than just education to keep a language alive.
"How do you say ; 'This is my home'?" in Aramaic?" <-- much easier to capture and translate. And from remaining speakers.
Or...
"Tell mw about your gods" (and then capturing/translating their responses)
While the term "Polish Notation" predates 1965, including in German as "polnische Notation", it appears to be in a specialized context not related to children's humor.
The only other Google Books reference for "Polnisch rückwärts" is a 1982 reference with nothing to do with computers.
Looking in archive.org, here's a 1984 German computer magazine which describes FORTH as „polnisch rückwärts“. https://archive.org/details/cpm-anwenderhandbuch-thom-hogana...
On the other hand, a 1986 article uses a different structure, at https://archive.org/details/hc-mein-home-computer_1986-10/pa... :
> Der Programmiersprache Forth eilt das Schlagwort „umgekehrt polnische Notation“ voraus, was ein wenig wie „polnisch rückwärts“ klingt und auf den ersten Blick meist als Rückschritt gewertet wird.
Those are the only two uses of that phrase in archive.org. By comparison, "polnische Notation" is far more common.
> According to Keber[24], the phraseological unit španska vas comes from the German phraseological unit »für jemanden spanische Dörfer sein«, which is a mixture of two phraseological units: »das ist mir spanisch« (used in reference to the Spanish and German king Charles V, who introduced unknown customs to the German lands) and »für jemanden böhmische Dörfer sein« (Germans did not understand the names of the Czech (= »böhmisch«) villages).
The citation is 24. KEBER J, Slovarslovenskih frazemov (Založba ZRC, Ljubljana, 2011).
https://people.cs.umass.edu/~rsnbrg/hardest.pdf (p332) corroborates:
> "Wait!" I hear you saying, dear reader! "Whence come these villages into our discussion?" I am relying here on one of my older and more historically minded informants, a native German, who maintains that these village-oriented expressions and the familiar (and popular)
> Es waren mir böhmische Dörfer
> arise from the unintelligibility (to the speaker) of the names of the mentioned villages.
* Even if we consider the portions of the Bible written in Aramaic (i.e. parts of the Old Testament), speakers 2,000+ years after the fact are speaking a different form of the language whose value to understanding older texts is limited and not straightforward.
* Theologically significant translation difficulties in the New Testament are overblown.
Attic survived as a literary / prestige dialect because important philosophical works and plays and such were written in it, but it was the vernacular of the region when those plays, etc. were written.
The general progression of Greek, very simplified, can be said to be Homeric -> Attic / Ionic / other dialects -> Koine (mostly from Attic & Ionic) -> Medieval -> Modern