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Comment by codemonkey-zeta | Hacker News Reader

> When I pulled up at a stoplight waiting for the light to change, I would instinctively reached for my phone (mounted on my dash) to check my email (personal + work), check ESPN, look up something on Amazon, etc. While pumping gas in the car, I’d whip out my phone while waiting. Stuck in line somewhere? Time for my phone. Waiting in an elevator? The phone. Riding the train? The phone. Going to the bathroom? Make sure to bring the phone! Eating breakfast? The phone. Any spare or idle moment? The phone

This describes every single person I know under the age of 25, and I'm in that demographic. It must be the single greatest public health experiment of all time.

The crazy part is, not one single person I know thinks of it as a bad thing. They just seem to accept it as part of life, which makes me feel so alienated whenever interacting with them, since I am hardly ever using my phone (the computer on the other hand...)

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I never developed phone addiction in this way because I always had mobile data disabled.

I only enable mobile data when I need to sync calendars.

That being said: on PC and too often check hacker news and similar sites: I'm trying out Krishnamurti's "observation":

Can you catch yourself the VERY MOMENT you wish to go to some website (NOT after you already did: but when you wish to go: what kind of pressure/frustration is building up in you?

This is exactly the same reason I didn't develop an addiction. Being forced to be disciplined about data seems to have had a knock-on effect of lowering my dependence on the phone in general.

For me I think graduating to a smartphone later than "normal" had a similar effect. Mid 30s, but I got my first smartphone at ~25 instead of ~20.

There's a lot of external pressure to be constantly on your phone. People of my age are a little perplexed when I explain to them the reason I didn't text back right away was because I was outside, but my phone was upstairs in my room.

Will definitely check out "observation", sound interesting!

I feel like the next step after recognizing and slowing/stopping the problem is with filling that void with meaningful work. For this I recommend "Deep Work" by Cal Newport. I felt like that book gave me the tools I needed to not just stop the bad habit, but replace it with constructive ones

That is an easy read, and I liked the examples such as hay farming, and 'shallow' v. 'deep' work. People have to be willing to prioritize and set down the distractions.

I'm wanting to do a phone & computer distraction free day per week. I just haven't gotten started.. of course.

Maybe disabling data on the phone will be a good way to do it! (I still need to keep it around at work hours for calls.)

A friend of mine just got a new model candybar phone. Calls and texts (w/o pictures).

I remember the elevator thing hitting me pretty hard back around 2010/2011 when I had a job on the 9th floor of an office building. I realized that almost every single person stepping into the elevator would immediately pull out their phone and start playing with it. Even for a 3 floor ride that would take literally 5 seconds. They genuinely couldn't bare to not be entertained for 5 seconds.

I assume things are even worse nowadays.

I pull out my phone even though I know there is no signal and that nothing will load. It’s more to avoid interaction with anyone else than entertainment.

>Any spare or idle moment?

It wouldn't even be that bad if it was just idle moments. If you're ever sitting in a cafe or restaurant or at the movies look around and see how often people bring their phone out during personal conversations or stuff they paid actual money to see. It is wild that barely anyone talks about how pervasive this is now.

I think that this is the worst part. We gradually forget how to do nothing, how to stare out a window and just daydream or read something. Not being busy or productive every moment.

You can read something on your phone?

Actually?

If I was in this state I would be scared for myself. Maybe I wouldn’t need to be, but it seems seriously concerning.

I think I’m bad with my phone, but I’m nowhere near that level. I can still leave it at home without anxiety or choose a book over Instagram, so to speak.

In some naive way I almost hoped younger people would see the problem with phones and navigate their way around it. I felt almost blindsided by how addictive they are, having acquired my first smart phone around age 25. Perhaps the reality is that we’re all weak to the phones and being steeped in it for a lifetime is a curse more than a blessing.

For anyone struggling, turning the screen to black and white helps. Less dopamine per hit makes it easier to break those habits.

I never thought to do this and already enabled it per your comment. Let’s see how it goes the rest of the weekend.

I genuinely prefer greyscale displays. If I weren't visually impaired and/or so much UX didn't rely on color, I'd turn it off permanently except for art creation.

Interesting, Set it to find out for myself

Color filters under Accessability, for those on iOS.

Same place on Android, incidentally.

I did that few weeks ago after reading a similar comment here on hn. It helped, phone was less interesting; but then monkey brain made it a challenge game to assume, guess & fill colors in screen display images. More brain taxing, I changed it back to regular.

I wasn't even aware that's an option.

If nothing else it might make late night usage of the phone much less disruptive to sleep.

> The crazy part is, not one single person I know thinks of it as a bad thing

That's what gets me the most. We all have an insane addiction, yet nobody seems to be talking about it. It's completely socially accepted.

Interestingly, a lot of weird things are totally socially accepted. Religion, alcohol, coffee, etc. (I'm a sinner who drinks but still, it's weird)

Religion/acohol/coffee makes a society work. One gives a common background for a community, another gives stress relief valve and helps mating, the third one lets people stay on the clock and focused.

Meanwhile phone disrupts all of those. Tears apart communities into online bubbles managed by algorithms, increases stress and prevents mating and shortens attention span and disrupts focus.

It's fascinating because ten years ago, people did talk about it. I remember when everybody started getting smart phones, when someone whipped out their phone, somebody would inevitably comment on it, like "Oh, we're playing with our phones out now?" and then would follow suit. (Most likely because they wanted to check something on their phone as well.)

It was almost a faux pas at first to sneak a peek at your phone when having a meal or coffee with someone, but nowadays, nobody bats an eyelash. I very much remember people consciously trying to put their phones away or face them down on the table since it was so distracting to everyone.

I suppose for someone who's 25 years old now, it's not necessarily a social transition that they experienced.

I read this as I’m sitting in a social circle in a park and started checking HN on my phone as people were around

My friends and I are all around age 27 to 31 and while most of us still have this behavior, we do talk about it a lot and definitely think of it as a bad thing. For a while, we had a craze about Digital Minimalism by Cal Newport, but I guess it didn't stick.

I do realize though that I live in a bubble and that most people our age probably consider it very normal.

>The crazy part is, not one single person I know thinks of it as a bad thing

I bet they don't think of it at all. It's addiction. It's a habit that sneaks up on you.

I'm not attacking you, but have you mentioned it to them as a bad thing, or challenged them to not do that?

I say this as a 30-something that does the same, but today installed minimalist.phone to work on the struggle.

I remember one time back right before COVID hit, watching this young couple in a restaurant a few tables down from us. They were obviously on some kind of date (dressed real nice), but their phones were just lighting up constantly. Dinging and buzzing and vibrating. Notification here, message there, and they kept picking them up over and over and checking them every time, like Pavlov's dogs reacting to the bell. I don't think they even got through a sentence, let alone a conversation. I can't imagine maintaining my sanity in that environment. It's like living on the Las Vegas strip all day with all the lighting up, dinging and buzzing all the time.

When I originally posted this story with a very critical tone, I got downvoted into oblivion. How dare I judge these addicts! I think a lot of people here see a little of themselves in that picture and rush to its defense.

I've been for about 5 years on DND mode 24/7. No messages, no phone calls, no notifications, no needy phone waking up wanting me to do its bidding. It's really liberating. I now use my device on my own terms not on some app developer's schedule. The wellbeing difference is indescribable.

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