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Comment by fasteo | Hacker News Reader

SMS has a unique advantage that no other channel has: No user onboard needed. Got a SIM ? got SMS.

I send lots of 2FA SMS for a number of banks here in Europe and they - because of the costs after PSD2[1] went live - want users to use their app for getting notifications as 2FA. They have launched several communication campaigns over the last 2-3 years, but only 30% of users have migrated from SMS to in-app notifications, mostly because they won't even install their app.

Then, we have uses cases where users don't have a regular relation with your business (p.e. e-sign for consumer goods financing on spot). In this case, I would say that SMS is the only channel you have to serve these users.

For better or worse, I do not see SMS disappearing anytime soon.

[1] https://ec.europa.eu/info/law/payment-services-psd-2-directi...

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Don't have a SIM? Get fucked.

There are people who don't have a cell phone because they see it as a distraction engine that will gobble up their life. Digital addictive drugs. But it's almost impossible to maintain this stance in modern life. Have you seen the trend of restaurants that no longer print menus? Instead there is a QR code that opens up their website to get the menu. Every service now wanting SMS verification adds to their problems.

I have asked for a paper menu in these cases and almost all restaurants have been happy to oblige. One time the restaurant let me use their ipad to see the menu.

I wouldn’t count on this, but I’m trying to give a business money. Most are happy to satisfy reasonable requests.

I was at a food court recently where one of the restaurants didn't have a menu. Just a QR. I asked, and there's no paper version available. I asked what they do for blind people and got a blank stare.

So I went to the restaurant next door. If you can't even bother to scribble a menu on a chalkboard, you're not a real business.

> I asked what they do for blind people and got a blank stare.

Probably talk to them? I'm not sure where you're going with this because a paper menu isn't going to help with blindness.

Let me introduce you to the wonderful world of Braille: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Braille

Does your average mildly competent restaurant have braille menus to begin with...?

It's not only about having a SIM but also have one 'they' like. I am with a small provider here in Switzerland (that is the daughter of the biggest provider) and things like Twitter, Twitch, .. don't even support that number for whatever reason.

I personally only use throwaway rental numbers on the web, basically giving me the worst security possible for any kind of account that falls back to SMS for security.

I know people who have tried to save money or tried to avoid giving money to unethical companies by only having a virtual phone number. Turns out that virtual SMS numbers are treated like radioactive Ebola by most services.

It's a lot more complex than that actually. With Signalwire for example you can rent Canadian (and US) numbers at 0.2/m that work well with surprisingly many services, but not all. In a similar fashion you always find the right company to use/abuse any service that asks for a number. You won't get around the internet with a single cheap VOIP number tho. Plus there are providers with more or less perfect Sims but they are expensive.

There are also services that are specialized on providing the right number for a one time fee. This usually works well, but more often than not destroys future account security (they all will give numbers out again, not relevant what they claim)

I could literally write a book about my life without a 'real' phone number.

I would buy and read that book, even though I know a lot of it will be out of date by the time it was ready for sale.

Things like my bank refusing to work with me over the phone because the person literally did not believe I could have a number starting with 666. That's timeless :)

We actually scrape like 30 sites offering virtual numbers to block them all. Our customers don't like seeing their SMS appearing in random sites.

They should stop being so nosy and looking over the user's shoulder, then.

That doesn't sound really effective at all. So you only go after the 'free online SMS numbers' so every number behind a minimal pay wall still works?

Skype

>Instead there is a QR code that opens up their website to get the menu.

This is a trend here in Brazil. And do they send you to a lightweight, mobile-optimized web page? No way in hell, you can be pretty damn sure they will send you to a 20MB PDF that was designed for printing.

It's mind boggling how insane this is.

> Don't have a SIM? Get fucked.

Well yes, doesn't literally everything need a phone number to work these days? Can't open a bank account, can't get paid, can't pay bills, can't exist.

Make a guess how fast one can SIM swap you if you are a good target. Phone calls and SMS should not be used for any such communication period.

2FA is ideally user generated to begin with, and not the other way around.

This is more to check the box and state to the court you tried your best.

P.S. Example: We had serious issues when people gave Google their phone numbers and the corporate accounts got hijacked.

> but only 30% of users have migrated from SMS to in-app notifications, mostly because they won't even install their app.

You say 'even' but it's hard to make sure apps aren't able to track me at all, and I while I trust my bank to keep my money safe I don't trust their app to be tracker-free.

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