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Comment by robonerd | Hacker News Reader

These cartridges are sketchy as fuck; I don't trust any of them and I don't think anybody else should either. Do yourself a favor and buy a vape you can pack ground herb into.

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All of the cartridges I buy have a breakdown of THC, THCa, CBD, CBDa, and eight different turpenes. I trust their analysis and quality control more than most consumable products.

What is your basis for this trust? If it's a general faith in the good nature of other people, then I respect and envy that. But lacking that faith, I see a system where federal oversight is nonexistent and state oversight is probably some combination of incompetent or corrupt. If I had to guess, I think most companies in this industry are probably on the level. But a commercial incentive for doctoring lab reports clearly exists (even for independent labs) and at least a few companies have been busted for it.

Federal legalization and FDA/USDA oversight can't come soon enough.

You seem to put a lot of trust in the federal and state governments.

I trust their product because it is a highly competitive market and it is a premium product. If one cartridge says it's 77% and the next says it's 67%, you can tell when you vape it. People would just buy other products if they were inconsistent.

> If one cartridge says it's 77% and the next says it's 67%, you can tell when you vape it.

Oh, please.

This is downright silly -> there are numerous markets where consumers were getting duped for years before anyone found out. The market for cosmetics is highly competitive and yet it's full of counterfeit goods containing horse urine.

This in particukar is very similar to original snake oil sales men. The consumers do not know the health effect or product purity untill many years down the line.

Competition indicates nothing about trustworthiness when 100% of consumers are incapable of validating that trust.

The article is about the cartridges themselves. They heat things with a metal heating element that can be damaged and release metal ions at operational temperatures.

The concerning element is not the marijuana extracts but the additives they are suspended in, which are generally unregulated and undisclosed (the cannibinoid analysis is there because it is legally mandated, and is the basis for tax assessment). Unfortunately, this recent Chicago Sun Times investigation[1] also demonstrated that even our very strict testing protocols in Illinois are apparently ineffective, with almost none of the tested products matching the lab results printed on the package.

1. https://chicago.suntimes.com/cannabis/2021/12/10/22828340/le...

It's like everyone forgot the popcorn lung outbreak a few years ago.

I don’t hear about it anymore, and if anything usage has likely increased.

I think vape cart manufacturers removed Vitamin E from their suspension medium because of the negative publicity. I'm not aware of any regulation that resulted because of it, which would specifically prevent Vitamin E being added back into the mix at some point.

Or, we were paying close attention and saw the rise of fake-branded carts absolutely exploding on social media right before popcorn lung cases hit the news. And for 3-4 weeks there were all these god damn stories and all these theories even here on HN.

But many of us, watching the sidelines in /r/fakecarts or whatever the various subs are that I used to check in on, were reading countless stories of "friend drives these from Cali bro, but my friend had to go to the hospital". Over and over, right before they started hitting the national news. Oh, and by this time the cannabis forums were already abuzz trying to figure out what the "new" suspension liquid was. And worried that it was Mineral Oil or Vit E oil. Which, it was.

And then there were 2-3 big fake cart producers busted in the Midwest, the new product was removed (never followed up to see if he was held liable) .... And just like that "popcorn lung" stories fell out of the news. Damn near immediately (I remember this hyper distinctively as I'd done months of research about everything concentrate/cart related before a large travel trip. Before I left I was watching fake carts explode. While traveling I was laughing as people were indicting pot, all carts, vapes in general. And then sure enough, a few arrests were made in the Midwest and I've literally never seen a noteworthy article about "vape popcorn lung".)

I am absolutely aghast at some ignorant, half-truths repeated up and down this thread. People that fell for FUD and assume their historical memories are correct. People acting like a well-regulated mod is a, I quote, "pipe bomb".

I swear, some folks act like because it's "drugs", there can't be objective information. Or are just so willing to be swept away with boogey man bullshit if it touches up against some societal "rule" built into them. And then the smugness of "well, duh, of course" based on an incomplete understanding of the situation.

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Bah humbug -- the real only answer that matters is -- buy an e-rig, have discipline, take baby dabs. Your money will literally go twice as far, zero risk of heavy metals, no bullshit additives if you're buying wax/live-resin, at least in Washington.

So your answer to unregulated and potentially dangerous carts is don't use them and dab instead? Like I don't disagree, I'm just not sure what you're getting at.

I wouldn't touch those carts for love or money, because of their unregulated nature. I am very fortunate in that I can grow my own and I use a flower/dry herb vape. Can't beat that IMO.

At least in the UK, where there is a small, highly regulated, legal medical market, the few carts that are available contain no additives at all - only cannabinoids and terpenes. You can look up Theraceed and Columbia, both of which IIRC are sold in the US TOO.

They also cost around a whopping £85 in the UK, for just ~350mg of THC, which is some serious price gouging :(

The article is about how the cart itself is the potential issue, and none of the tests results take in to account real life - or potential (mis) use of the cart.

I know some black market producers and they just fake the breakdowns. Local dispensaries have no qualms about buying these black market counterfeit carts. I have seen the backroom deals. Your trust is unfounded.

Legal dispensaries are not buying black market carts.

And grocery stores certainly aren’t buying fake olive oil, or selling garbagefish as fine fish, or buying cartel avocados, or fake honey, or…

Never would a bar sell you a counterfeit whisky!

And surely no one would sell fraudulent cancer medications!

And your legal storefront couldn’t sell fake vape carts! The drug cartels would never participate in such schemes!

They 100% are at least in California more specifically LA and Orange counties. I have personally witnessed it.

LA is full of illegal dispensaries. I have no doubt that they sell illegal carts.

But actual regulated dispensaries are not, it would be too easy for them to get caught.

During the last scandal around tainted vape carts, they did not trace a single one back to an actual dispensary, but did trace a number to illicit dispensaries in LA.

It is worth noting though that LA has a staggering number of unlicensed/illegal dispensaries. This article puts 4 in 5 as illegal in LA area [0]. This is not true of NorCal.

[0]: https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/2021/02/09/los-angele...

I applaud your faith in rules and humanity.

You can buy tested cartriges or even make your own distillate from flower too.

The marijuana testing lab industry is rife with fraud, it doesn't give me much confidence. (Flower could be compromised too, but I think the less processing done before purchase, the less chance there is for something to go wrong.)

DIY extracts seems like a good alternative. But vaping ground flower is very straight forward and low effort, so it seems like the obvious choice to me.

Vaping ground flower is fine, but IMHO it takes a considerable amount more vaping of ground flower (handheld style vape, not volcano) than it does just smoking it to have the same effects. And it takes a considerable amount more of smoking flower to have the same effect, than it does taking a hit off a THC vape cart.

Neither of those options fix this issue. Cartridge metals can seep into the vape material over time or after elements have been heated up a few times; testing won't catch that. Making your own distillate, similarly, won't protect you against heavy metals in the cartridge.

You can buy ceramic cartriges now too.

I use them, purely as the are very convienant and have low annoyance for people around me (smell on myself, smell in the air, smoke, ect).

I have tried but nothing else comes close for consuming extracts When outside my house.

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