Is it very hard to do that, especially with the play store tax? Or am I being a pessimist.
Please share your success (or failure) so we can all get some motivation (or reality check)
In my opinion, has never been harder to make money charging money for apps:
- Competition is huge (including underhanded competition that will clone any successful app instantly)
- Customer appetite to pay for "apps" is near zero. Customers don't even want to download more apps, let alone pay money for them.
- Programs like Apple Arcade and Google Play Pass have further eroded the idea of paying for apps
- Ad-driven trash apps and poor app store ranking/discoverability have further driven consumers away from trying new apps in app stores
Of course lots of successful businesses use apps as part of their business model. But very few are making money from selling the app itself unless they have a really good niche figured out.
It has recently become even worse as the Google Store no longer shows permissions.
I can't trust that next week a bad actor buys you out and drops in a browser exploit.
So on a new project, we just created an amazing, reponsive web-app.
The most frequent feedback we got from users we showed it to was: "That's awesome! When is the (IOS/Android) app ready?"
Sigh...
I hate to say it, but I’d probably pay apple a cut if they’d let me distribute PWAs through their App Store without going through the trouble of building a lame native wrapper.
https://www.macrumors.com/how-to/add-a-web-link-to-home-scre...
When you tap on the icon on the home screen, it'll open up in Safari without any browser chrome visible.
The only fuckup they've done so far.
https://www.reddit.com/r/SimpleMobileTools/comments/u5fopt/s...
I've also found SunTimes, SMS Backup+ (for SMS, MMS, Call log -> SMTP email), Markor, LawnChair, OpenCamera (specifically for manual camera control like exposure and focus), NewPipe, Aegis Authenticator, and FluffyChat to be really useful.
For example, Procreate on an iPad with the Pencil is probably my favorite program for any platform from any time. I think I paid $10 years and years ago. Since then the creators have continued to develop the program and it's way better than it was when I bought it. I would have been more than happy to send them another $10 here and there for some of the significant updates.
However, I don't like the subscription model unless it's implemented like JetBrains does it where the subscription fee entitles you to updates and you have a perpetual license for the software once you have it.
I'm at the point where each OS update means another app gets purged from my phone.
Interestingly, I found myself thinking about this and thought about it a little different. I indeed want to have as little apps on my phone as possible, but that made me want to increase the quality of those apps. And thus I wasn't against paying for those if they are indeed better quality.
It's like with cooking. If your dish uses less ingredients, you can focus on better quality ingredients then.
So, once I have my needs covered, I have very little desire to go hunting for something new.
Knights of the Old Republic I and II are the best IMO.
If you're more of a western RPG guy I believe Icewind Dale and Baldur's gate are on there too.
“Person” is so speciesist.
https://apps.apple.com/de/app/divinity-original-sin-2/id1458...
It's like if we were given the Internet in 1990 but forced to use AOL to search, forever. Someone please disrupt app search.
The market is very different I agree but I'd disagree on the money part. Subscription B2C business models are normalised and there's a lot of companies making a lot of money in both app stores right now. In fact I think you can probably make more money now than you could in 2008-2012. Granted it's all a lot more sophisticated and requires more up-front capital, larger marketing budgets and larger teams than it used to but the money is there.
As far as I see, people are installing less apps but the few they have they're spending more time and money in.
Yeah, that's pretty much the point. In 2010 I released a paid app developed in my spare time, did zero marketing, and made around $10k after app store fees and taxes. That would never happen today.
It was already really REALLY BAD. People would "re-skin" games, so they would make a game (or more often just steal one and re-package as their own) and replace graphics/audio to make it look different even though it was the same game. If I recall correctly some managed to have almost a hundred re-skins of the same game. Of course the more games you have as a publisher the higher you are in the search results/easier it is for you to get new installs. Click fraud was rampant even then, with cloned and fake SIMs, real and virtual devices, botnets... It was nearly impossible to make anything in that market back then so I folded around 2012.
Of course it's loser's perspective, maybe somebody else has more optimistic take :-)
Mobile games are a pit.
Modern phones can run pretty impressive stuff now, hell iOS has Civ 6 and Total War Medieval 2 ports.
But instead the stores seem to be filled with endless reskins of the same tired concepts as a decade ago.
And then the ads are all lies. They'll legit just rip some footage from a well established and well liked PC game, say Age of Empires II, and use that in their ads when the actual game is just a shitty Clash of Clans ripoff.
Also I don't see the phone as a proper OS where I would spend money on. It's a gadget, a plaything and my head hurts if I use it too long and I need some time to recover.
With Android/iPhone, it was clearly 2008-2012, as you mentioned.
With Google/SEO, it was 2004-2010 (right before Google Panda/Penguin algorithm).
With Facebook ads/Shopify/DTC, it was 2010-2016.
With SaaS, it was 2010-2016, IMO.
App-based business models are recipe for disasters. Many horror stories of app banned because scammy competitor complained. Apple or Google won't care.
High app rating for new app is a sure sign of cloned app or scam.
I won't download 95% of apps if i see "includes in-app purchases". Special purpose apps like "All Trails" or specialized aggregators/organizers that require lots of work to deliver - typically justify the cost.
Cute calculators that require recurring payments to disable annoying ads is complete nonsense
It is one of 3 markets that are like that: health, dating/relationships, finances.
"Fitness" as a concept pertains to the "dating/relationships" market and is therefore linked to the strongest motivator ie. gettig laid. It is also linked to health and for some it helps with their professional performance. So yeah, "fitness" hits a sweet spot there.
But really, have a seriously useful app in either one these three and you can build a business around that.
Looking like an almost-Adonis certainly helps in the looks department, but if I cared only for vanity, then I'd be working to get myself a 6-pack.
I use a fitness app to help program and track my workouts, so that I can more steadily progress to lifting bigger weights, because it feels fantastic to get a new personal record in the gym. It was free, but a ~$5ish one-time fee unlocked a lot more 'nice things'.
I didn't need to pay for my use case, but chose to because the app showed that it was worth it. Now, I have a page of graphs that helps me estimate when I can expect to be setting a new 1rm.
some fun trivia: I've performed 693 deadlifts, and moved a total of 120,870 lbs of weight since tracking things in the app.
I currently use Strong, but the Apple Watch app uses 1/2lb increments and there is no way to change it. Super irritating to scroll through hundreds of ticks to log a deadlift...
Apps are a hits-driven industry. The top apps generate about $82,500 per day but only 0.01% of apps make money.
IMO, the Play Store tax isn't a huge deal. They've lowered their take from 30% to to 15%: https://support.google.com/googleplay/android-developer/answ....
This is the key stat - you can sell your app and maybe make some coin, or you can make it free and shove it full of ads and definitely get some (small amount) of coin.
Making a big success is unlikely; but if you find a targeted niche that you're already involved in you may be able to make a small success.
I feel like a big part of the problem is that the entire space is filled with junky 'free' apps, and getting to something high-quality is difficult. And so we're trained not to value apps because they're awful, and therefore not worth paying for anyway. A vicious cycle.
If the apps are reasonable quality and solve a problem, what's $5 or even $10? Many people spend around that for a cup of coffee that will be gone in 30min. I'd happily pay that for a good app - if only I could find one.
I'd LOVE to see super-cheap subscriptions too - like maybe ten cents or even less per month. This solves another issue: Once a dev has gotten most of the one-off sales they can, there's not much incentive to maintain the app. A subscription model is much better for this, but for most simple utility apps it needs to be very cheap.
If they're all $10 per month, $1000 total, I cannot afford to subscribe to all of them and I'll likely subscribe to none of them.
If they're all $1 per month, $100 total, I could afford to subscribe to all of them but I won't. I'll pick one or two killer apps and only pay for those.
If they're all $0.10 per month, $10 total, I will subscribe to all of them, and maybe after some time weed out one or two that I never use.
Still I think there are workarounds: Maybe I can pay Apple $20/mo for 2000 'points' that I spend on whatever subscriptions I want, and they pass the points/payments along in bulk to each vendor. Not sure.
(1) https://playsearch.kaki87.net/
edit: sorry it looks to be down right now. Was working before last time I tried. I'll just leave my comment here in case he updates it again.
See the Reeder app for an example.
Though this doesn’t work where service fees are part of the equation, perhaps the best way to handle that would be passing the cost down to users through an optional subscription.
Things have changed now.
"paid app at version X, which will get bugfixes indefinitely" - Would you continue maintaining some old version of an app you wrote three years ago that nobody buys anymore? I certainly hope not.
Most of the mobile industry is normal companies who need developers for their app, in the same way they need developers for their website. The image of the lone app developer making some passion-project app and posting it up on the store to sell for millions gained some popularity because it's so inspirational, but that's not how most app developers make money, especially in 2022. The market is over-saturated.
If you are more interested in a risky passion-project than a normal job, then the emerging market of VR gaming apps on Oculus still shows some promise.
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.appidio.ra...
I never marketed it properly though and so the bottom fell out of my sales to the point that I was making almost nothing from it, so I made it free.
That was project that taught me that marketing is more important than technical achievement.
I suppose you have only data for certain locations so that would be the most logical explanation to me
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.yocto.weno...
Here's my take :-
1) Just like in other businesses, it is a competitive market.
2) However, it is also full of limitless opportunities. Google Play store helps you to reach worldwide end consumers. Only a few channels can do that with a frictionless payment system. Google Play store is one of them.
3) Since it is a highly competitive market, you need to know your niche and know who your targetted customers are very well. Then, we provide a solid solution to fit customer needs.
4) Play store tax is not a concern. Once you publish the app, the only main concern is how to market the app and how to pitch the app so that consumers will choose your app over the others.
5) With some luck, one will hit overnight success. But, the chance is rare. Most of the time, we need to invest a lot of resources, and success is not guaranteed.
1) We offer 1-time in-app purchases. The price tier ranged from $30.99 to $0.99 (We offer promo prices to users when they share the app with enough people)
2) We offer a monthly subscription model of $5 per month when the user requires better cloud storage to store their notes, image attachments, and voice recordings - https://www.wenote.me/cloud
3) Every 1-time in-app purchase comes with a 7-day free trial. After 7 days of the free trial, we provide an option for users to watch video ads in exchange for additional 2 days of the free trial.
4) We decide not to show banner ads/ full-screen ads. Even though it will make us earn less, it will provide a better user experience, gaining a better user retention rate and better app reputation.
But, in order to outpace millions of other apps in long run, we need to perform the following
1) ASO App store - So that our apps are searchable with the right keywords
2) Localization App store - So that our app can reach more users
3) A/B testing App store - So that we will find out what is the most effective graphics asset
4) Paid advertising - So that you will get real users
5) ... (other marketing activities)
As we can see, all the above activities require a substantial amount of money (We need to hire people with the right skill to complete the task or pay our ads network)
I think knowing how to spend the marketing money the right way, is the key to success in Google Play/ Apple App Store.
I am still learning the hard way, though.
https://proff.no/selskap/bertheussen-it-as/trondheim/datapro...
I strongly believe that the "non-gaming" app business is flawed. Or you offer a superb app for peanuts (e.g. Procreate is wonderful, but I paid it 10$, and it's worth way more IMHO) or you trick people with subscriptions which are really sketchy to me.
Games are a different story btw.
that's what i'm talking about when i say "sketchy"
Then the market got very competitive, the "recently updated" section was removed and everything died immediately for me. I have no idea how you would get users now without an advertising budget.
Also, games are very different than Apps. People are more willing to spend money on entertainment than apps. Some exceptions are dating, health, finance though.
Back in 2014 and 2015, I launched an app on windows phone and android respectively. They both made a few thousand within a couple of months. I discontinued them, but mostly because the competition on Android was too much and I was unsure about the product strategy going forward. Fast-forward years later, and several of those competitors also shut down, leaving room for other apps in that space to grow and take more marketshare. I really think you have to just keep at it.
I actually think Apps were difficult to make money from years ago but that was because several factors such as competition, consumer spending habits, lack of incentives from iOS/play stores.
Now, I think things are a bit different:
1. Fewer apps as the tech sector has shifted to more cutting edge tech like crypto, etc.
2. Quality of apps have gone up
3. In-App purchases are very common as are Subscription models
4. People are more willing to spend on IAP and have gotten used to subscriptions
5. Stores have reduced taxes to %15 in some cases
6. People are using fewer apps these days, no more app explosion.
But basically, you're app has to be high-quality and useful. Also, the main drivers for app installs are still the app stores themselves, so you have to optimize for the app store. Look into ASO ( app store optimization ). Also, expect to take a long-time to build up your audience. I'm attempting to launch a new app now, and going through this process.
Regarding ios vs android, it's easier to make revenue on iOS for sure, but again, if your app is high-quality and useful i'm not sure it makes a big difference.
1. Health - Without it, you can't do much 2. Dating - The need for romance/sex/relationships 3. Finance - To ensure food/water, housing, savings
Why is it a "vs"? Why not just both? I thought so many tech stacks nowadays are more or less cross platform and make it relatively easy to ship to both or am I being naive?
It wasn't serious money but a nice addition to my salary at the time. I highly doubt a price point like this can still be done in the current app environment.
Imagine some lawyer website or whatever that lawyers have to login into and it's an absolute PITA on Android, but you make an app that does that part for them, charge $100, done. (Obviously this example doesn't work, but that kind of thing).
Unlike websites, which are largely commoditized by big players, custom apps still fetch large sums. The pros in this space charge project-based (or at least per diem) rates, so you'll need to be good at estimating your work.
What do you think the value proposition is for them to share this on the internet?
HN upvotes?
You said "solo", so... each?
Insane, or BS.
Yes, iOS users pay more easily for smaller apps (think special Camera apps), but if you create an app that provides value on a daily basis with a subscription model, you also make money on Android.
First one is more relevant though I think. Even the flagship Google phones are substantially cheaper than an IPhone. You can get a Xiaomi phone for 100€ that does everything a smart phone needs to do reasonably well.
This is well known in the industry and a bit sad if you enjoy Android, but that's how it is and it has many reasons, such as user behavior.
It's the cost of the acquisition channel not a tax. And if you want to build a successful business then you better understand the difference.
Because these days you will likely need to pay for other channels as well e.g. SEO, Paid Ads, Referral, Influencer etc. And the challenge is how you can afford this when your app is only a few dollars.
Which is why most newer startups are doing free apps with a subscription add-on.
I'm pretty sure the poster didn't mean it was literally a tax.
My guess would be most apps are discovered through other channels, and then the user just clicks a link on a website that takes them to the app store. Or they already know the exact app they're looking for, and search for it by name directly. So the store doesn't provide any value in such cases, yet they still take the 15% or 30%.
I recently released my first game on Android, very much a commercial endeavor but with a model that I somewhat expected too friendly for its own good - ad-free demo, single IAP for the full game. It made $10k over the first month and so far it seems to be still accelerating. I'm yet to release on iOS, I expected the Android port to be a drop in the bucket but this is going to go a long way in sustaining me as an indie game dev.
> ad-free demo, single IAP for the full game
Is there any backslash from the demo-only players (eg. leaving bad reviews since they need to pay to access full game)?
Care to share the link to the game?
Yeah, the game first released on Steam last year and had a decent following from that, ~15k sales and ~200k activations from a charity bundle.
> Is there any backslash from the demo-only players (eg. leaving bad reviews since they need to pay to access full game)?
There is some backlash, but honestly much less than I expected. I tend to politely respond to these reviews that they're unreasonable, and like half get removed or adjusted. In general there have been far more people explicitly grateful for this model, saying they probably wouldn't have picked up the game otherwise.
My game is Pawnbarian - https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.j4nw.Pawnb...
For another recent-ish game that seems to have had great success with this kind of model (+ it's just a jolly good time), check out Slice & Dice - https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.com.tann.d...
If store would indicate that it's a free demo and display the price for full version, user's expectations would be managed better, as many skip or just skim over a description.
Good luck with iOS release :)
But here are some tips for starters:
- Pick a niche for your app that is very nerdy, don't do something mainstream, that would make too mayn people interested in your offering.
- Do not have a website or a youtube channel that helps people use your app. obscurity is absolutely crucial for your Android apps business success.
- Please pick a very cheap price with a crummy number like, say, $4,97 to evaporate your margins.
- Understand that consumers hate pretty icons and nicely animated user interfaces. Your app has to look like a Linux desktop of a guy, who feels most comfortable to be in terminal all day.
- Please make the billing process a PITA, otherwise things would be too easy! Better yet, make sure I can't even buy your app in most countries!
- Don't invest in graphics! Make the app icon ugly und undiscernable!
- Likewise, don't think about marketing. It is important that you just upload the app and let the app store do it's magic! It works 100%!
- Make sure you have no customer support. If you have good customer support, that could build trust and drive sales, something we do not want if we want to be successful.
- Lastly, let's make sure you disrespect quality programmers. Buy cheap code from a third world country! The delivered software architecture that breaks with every OS update and additional bag of bugs will be a constant maintenance nightmare. And after all, we want to have dreams, right?
- Oh, and don't make the app useful. Make it a gimmick that nobody really needs!
Keep the above in mind and surely, becoming a millionaire garage style with programming Android apps will be a peace of cake!
I think if your app isn’t a huge investment/hit and you are committing to long term support it (subscription) there is no way you can make good money.
Hyper casual games are huge investments since they got good metrics (takes time and budget to achieve such) and publishers are pouring money on them.
So if its not an app/service with subscription and its not subscription based game and its not hyper casual hit with a big publisher behind… it is got to be a good game like here https://noodlecake.com/games/. But if its a good game you probably are about Steam/Nintendo/Xbox/PS
Got acquired by Idealab around ~2010 + Made a decent income from a Pro version before that. Left the industry for all the reasons mentioned in other comments (and wouldn't go back).
^iOS uses GameCenter for turn based multiplayer so a $2.99 IAP unlocks unlimited concurrent multiplayer games and some other modes, whereas Android is not free to play and instead is just $.99 to buy, but with no multiplayer. Probably way too many variables to provide any meaningful conclusions on the Play Store!
I'd argue nowadays it's extremely difficult for individuals to create profitable Android games. The majority of the games are those driven by micro-transaction and/or ads and individuals simply cannot compete with professionals. On the other side, it might be possible to target a niche market and grab a few hundred/thousand bucks. For example the guy who made Wizardry clones definitely sold a few hundred copies.
edit: Maybe i'll add an app to grow my saas than think of money making from selling apps insted.
I wish I was making money like these other commenters. I think that's very rare though.
I had an idea of all expenses coming from revenues, so other than the initial $25 to Google and my time, all expenses came out of revenues. Initially all apps were on-phone with no backend. Initially I showed ads but did not run ads to advertise my apps. Initially I used the emulator and not a real phone. As I made money I bought a used Android device on Ebay (less than $100 with shipping), paid $10 a month for a backend web site (paying more later) and started advertising my apps, especially new apps, or new markets for old ones. It would probably be hard to have a successful app without advertising it to kick it off nowadays.
In 2016 I started writing an app to get free wallpapers, which I wrote a series of blog posts about here - http://www.vartmp.com/dev/wallpapers.html (I have it on my todo list to make that old site https in the coming months, it's easy enough to do but low priority). A link to the app is on that page.
Actually there is a blog post to be written of August 3rd 2018 to spring 2019 of fixing up Kotlin code (which I was less familiar with then) and other things. Aside from watching the backend server stayed up I basically abandoned the app since spring 2019 since I was busy with work and did not advertise it - and that is when it finally started making money. It made $192 in September 2019 and over $240 a month from March to May 2020. Since August 2020 it has made over $50 each month without any ads or anything from my end, so it pays for its own backend hosting, domain name registration and so forth.
My day job is working on an Android app for a large company. Over one million dollars a day in revenue goes over the app for the company I work for.
I did my side apps while I was taking college classes and was not focused on a good-paying, full-time, non-contracting SWE job as much, which I am doing now. Aside from monitoring the backend server is up, I have basically abandoned my side apps since contracting and then being hired by my current company, as my TC dwarfs what I made on my side apps while taking more college courses (although making over $2000 a month on my side apps while taking college courses worked for me). The Wallpapers app I released over three years ago still brings in over $50 a month, with no effort at all (aside from the very minimal effort of monitoring its server is up) from me.
Insofar as advice - for making money I favor ad-based apps over paid apps. The barrier to adoption are lower, less worries about piracy, and also you may not have a success until your second or third or fourth (etc.) app - I program Android full time and still haven't fully wrapped my head around things with a stable release from last year like Hilt and Compose, so there will probably be a learning curve for people less experienced.
I would also advise on focusing on big markets over niche markets. There's more competition but it's harder to make money in most niche markets.
They were all gambling.