Permacomputing Wiki
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permacomputing.net
"the computer, once invented, could not be un-invented"
They put most of the storage on the moon, most of the processing power in a network of satellites, and in every village there was a hut with a dumb terminal. The vast majority of the population didn't need computer skills, only the handful of people whose lifetime tenured position was to maintain the hut and the terminal. The only 'useful' function provided by the terminal was you could tell it what you had and what you wanted, and if there were people nearby with complementary needs and wants, it would tell you which direction to walk.
From the synopsis of the book:
> they do nothing on an industrial scale, reject governance, have no non-laboring caste, do not expand their population or territory, consider disbelief in what we consider “supernatural” absurd, and deplore human domination of the natural environment.
Added to the reading list.
This is often repeated, and I don't believe it's true. The US has, without a doubt, the most accessible and open democracy in the world. Take just for example the state legislatures. A state like Indiana has an economy and budget larger than most countries. Yet literally anyone can get elected to the state house of Indiana. Happens all the time. Congress is pretty similar, too (although in full fairness, the senate is indeed a bastion of oligarchy). Anyone who thinks our system isn't democratic isn't really trying.
This is a shockingly sheltered view. You must have no exposure to European democracy at all.
> Yet literally anyone can get elected to the state house of Indiana
Nope, this is false. You must have enough money, free time and access to media and advertising in order to that. It's just a positive feedback loop and it doesn't actually matter if legally anyone can run if practically nobody can.
> Anyone who thinks our system isn't democratic isn't really trying.
You haven't thought this through.
Since there are so many candidates in the US presidential elections and they nearly all have youtube channels, facebook pages, twitter etc, I was curious how much attention they are getting. The first 2 is easy, they are plastered all over the media and everyone around the world knows them on a first name basis.... but when I looked at random candidates on the long list it was amazing to see the 2 digit numbers. Some didn't get enough attention to account for friends and relatives. Truly shocking was that the green party had youtube videos with 100-250 views. This is such a mind blowingly small number that it doesn't account for any of the media. All those journalists around the world had to write about the top 2 candidates, they wrote tirelessly every day, again and again... Not one of them had the idea to have a looksie what just the number 3 was talking about. That voters collectively didn't give a rats ass about anyones program is one thing but that journalists collectively wrote 1 article on average about half the candidates. Most honestly told the reader they had no idea what their program was about.
So there you have it, the digital age provided us with hard data that demonstrates how no one in the world did their homework. No one bothered to inform themselves before voting. They all looked to others for information but those others didn't have any.
I therefore conclude we need a voting diploma. We bill everyone for 200 bucks and if they fail the exam government keeps the money. Long in advance the voter gets a randomly chosen list of 20 candidate with 500 chars for each of their top 3 agenda points. The test is multiple choice and you have to match the headlines of the agenda points with the candidates.
I'm sure there are people who don't agree but I think it is fair to never listen to them. Don't read what they write. Glaze over when they talk to you and think of puppies.
You need to use Esperanto contracts. When Esperanto was new, what they did is had this chain letter (or something?) where they said "If 1000 people agree to learn this language, will you also learn it?" and then they collected signatures and once they had gotten 1000 (or whatever the number was) then many of the people actually learned it...
People can display their self-less submission by voting for the top 2 candidates regardless what they represent. It sends a strong signal that they can do whatever they want.
All countries get a bunch of stuff right and makes a spectacular mess from other things.
Each of those spectacles should have one or more dedicated candidates and people who are sick and tired of it should vote for such candidate. The agenda, most of the time, can be a summary of examples of other [western] countries getting it right.
While original ideas are definitely possible you can have countless [shall we say] boring topics that are absolutely worth representing.
Such party may draw an utopian or extreme picture, it may even be unrealistic. If people vote for it it will eventually send a message to those politicians who always win the election each and every time. In turn they can propose or implement a trimmed down / mild version of it or explain why they are against it.
There might be truly silly ideas worth investigating but the winning candidate cant spend his finite time in office addressing the silly things. Unless there is a significant number of people who don't think it is silly at all.
The only chance for such a party to win is if the issue is ignored or escalated to the point everyone is fed up with it. Long before that one of the bigger candidates will absorb that juicy bag of votes.
Its a slow process but it works.
1% is nothing in contrast with the number of people murdered by democracies. Elections give the impression it is not really important but it might just be the most important thing for most of us to do. It seems reasonable to force people to spend some time learning what it is all about. 1% is nothing compared to getting shot or blown up. Democracy is a well oiled machine that can put all of the jews on the train the next day. It can take us to mars but it cal also kill you with the most sophisticated machinery.
Without a doubt, you are both extremely arrogant and ignorant in your US exceptionalism. What you think makes the US system unique (anyone can get elected) is actually standard in democracies. In fact, it's arguably easier for people without significant financial backing to be elected in most Western countries than in the US. And that's not even mentioning countries with far more direct democracy than the US, like Switzerland (the actual contender for the 'most democratic nation on earth' title).
"This person claims to be a Scotsman, but has never set foot in Scotland, nor have any of his ancestors or even acquaintenances (let alone friends or family), nor does he have any other ties whatsoever to Scotland."
"nO tRuE sCoTsMaN fAlLaCy lOl"
Voters don't write code. There is a process that goes from votes to personnel decisions to design decisions to writing patches. This process involves people who have their own ideas about how to interpret what the voters might theoretically want. There is lots of scope for them to make decisions you wouldn't like.
Your moving the goal post, but I'll bite anyway. Liquid democracy does as best as one can in that respect (and perfection is the enemy of good), since anyone that's capable can intervene at any point without hindrance. That's not possible in "representative" "democracies."
> This process involves people who have their own ideas about how to interpret what the voters might theoretically want. There is lots of scope for them to make decisions you wouldn't like.
Sure, and anyone who betrays the people could be removed as soon as they do, unlike today. In liquid democracy, you can just override them and with RIC, you can just recall them at will.
If not, then your system is not going to last long.
If yes, then how do you ensure this mechanism would not be subverted?
I've recently got my hands on a PowerBook G4 (2002), a quite interesting and still somewhat capable machine; however the OSX version it's stuck on (10.5.8) is having more and more problems reaching the TLS-secured web: TenFourFox is no longer maintained; Safari, curl, etc are all built against an ancient release of OpenSSL; etc. Even downloading TenFourFox is no longer possible, as system Safari can no longer load SourceForge, since SF requires a more modern TLS version than what the OS can understand.
Treating both plaintext HTTP and modern HTTPS as first-class citizens is the way to go for such projects & efforts, so hats off.
[1]: https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/web/http/headers/up...
Your story is exactly why we gave both HTTP and HTTPS access. I'm also still super inspired and happy to see how the whole Amiga website ecosystems tend to be served mostly over HTTP, so that it's possible to browse such resources on the most modest/limited/bare configurations.
https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/interwebppc-browser-a-r...
We had set up a shim for them to give them time to fix this mess, by setting up mitmproxy[0] explicitly enabling SSL 3.0 and upgrading the protocol for external requests. Since then, the shim has been killed by a careless upgrade, and it turns out that most SSL software (including OpenSSL) can't even be forced to talk SSL 3.0 anymore. If you want to get OpenSSL to talk SSL 3.0, you need an old version. The modern versions maintain the enable-ssl3 option, but it is always forced to no-ssl3 at configure time. I don't know if there's an easy way around this, so I've set up a docker image that pulls and builds and old version, and installs an old version of mitmproxy (along with python's cryptography and other dependencies).
It's not elegant, but it does technically work, for now. At some point, it's likely that the ciphers supported by it won't be supported by the modern internet, in which case I suppose you could daisy-chain mitmproxy instances, each upgrading the protocols for the last.
If somebody has a better idea for this kind of situation, I'd love to hear it. I hate this setup and would love to have a more elegant solution.
edit: I actually discovered that OpenSSL 1.1.1p doesn't force no-ssl if you do enable-ssl3 as well as enable-ssl3-method. That's a much more workable solution, and passes tests. I mentioned OpenSSL 3.0.4 in a previous edit of this comment, but it turns out that compiles, says it enables ssl3, but fails to complete an SSL 3.0 handshake.
edit 2: If anybody is curious, here's a working Dockerfile example for this, with configuration, volumes, and path stuff left as an exercise for the reader: https://paste.ofcode.org/uCyMuF6NtLKGyesT8FKYTB
> Why don't you modify the hard-coded `no-ssl3` config and try re-compiling?
I was actually missing an option, but it still doesn't work with OpenSSL 3.0. Fortunately, 1.1.1 works with it just fine, including the latest version released just today.
I have different plans for that machine. I'm planning to max it out (it's an A1025, so 2x512MB RAM, 802.11g, IDE->CF adapter + 2x64GB CF for storage, battery replacements, etc), and try various OS's of the era: MacOS 9.2.2; OSX 10.4, 10.5 and developer preview for 10.6; maybe even BeOS - to see which one(s) I like the best. Perhaps it will end up with OpenBSD on it as well! I'm also planning to do some development on each of these OSs :)
[1]: https://www.haiku-os.org/docs/develop/kernel/arch/ppc/overvi...
And browsers should honor HSTS sent over HTTP. And hstspreload.org should not refuse to include sites that maintain HTTP access instead of just redirecting to HTTP. And https:// should never have existed as a separate URL scheme.
It sucks that security advocates refuse to consider backwards compatibility even when for most websites the only attack they really need to protect from is malicious (US-based?) ISPs injecting ads, which should have been solved via legislation instead.
How exactly do you do computation in that way? There are ways, I'm sure. But not with anything resembling computers we use today. You'd basically need living computers. I'd love that, but I am not a fan of this rebranding of the term "permaculture" to shoehorn silicon into the sustainability movement, it doesn't fit, unfortunately.
Sounds like a sweatshop.
1. See this video by Lionel Penrose from the late 50s on a pre-digital version of "cellular automata":
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1sIph9VrmpM
2. See the, now defunct, outcome of Bret Victor's attempt at building a more communal form of computing:
Granted, the assumption he made is that computing power would grow increasingly cheap (which is basically the opposite of the point here), but I also wonder if techniques like those shown in that talk could be used effectively with a network of smaller, lower-power computers.
(I mean, the talk does mention the use of small low-power computers specifically, but more in the context of e.g. sensor networks.)
"Computer" in 1940 meant a woman who does computations
The ethical principle of "Fair Share" isn't just about the yields the land owner has, but also the yields other inhabitants of an ecology have. For people who are motivated by stewardship, for example, humans obtaining benefits is not elevated into its own thing. As an example, some of the Native tribes would say something along the lines that when you plant, one is for the plants, one is for the animals, one is for the birds, one is for us. It is certainly not about maximizing production efficiencies for the benefit of humans alone.
That motivation and attitude shapes the way someone views and experiences their life, and their place, and in turn shapes how we go about caring for land, caring for people, and fair share.
I know I'm cheating here a bit. I'm using the work of Carol Sanford to identify world view and paradigm, and that way of thinking through these things are not spelled out in the original works of Mollison and Holmgren. Sanford's work on regenerative paradigms and living systems world view goes a long way towards sorting out the different ways people approach things in the permaculture community, and is generalizable more broadly than food systems.
Regeneration is a characteristic exclusive to living systems. It's not something that can be approached from a world view that everything is a machine, or the paradigm that one can control behavior through incentives and disincentives. Only living systems can regenerate. It's the broader paradigm from which "your food (and other resources) produce themselves" comes from. Living systems are capable of growing and adapting on their own; they are nested -- so that is you and I, within larger living systems of family, community, organization, ecology. It is because of regeneration that "food and other resources produce themselves".
My point in all of this is that there is a diversity of motivations and views, and the view that "without that core benefit nobody could do it even if they wanted to and have a viable farm" is not as universal as it sounds like. "The core reason to do permaculture is that your food (and other resources) produce themselves" might be your core reason, but it is not true it is the reason that everyone in the permaculture community applies permaculture.
Post 2008, CPU typical use efficiency per Watt has doubled every 1.5 years [1]. This means that your decade old machine is probably burning a lot of coal and dumping heavy metals into the atmosphere. Doesn't sound too green to me.
How does the calculus change if the computer is being operated somewhere where it's cold most of the year and so the "waste" heat still has a useful function?
How does it change if throwing out the computer also means throwing out a battery and screen, as is the case for laptops and phones? Does the extra mass of a tower pay for itself in terms of longer lifespan as people upgrade those systems piecemeal?
Also, there are many hardware components besides CPUs where durability and repurposability would far outweigh operating efficiency.
Manufacturing a modern laptop produces around 360 kg of CO2, while energy utilisation operating it for 8 hours a day for a year produces roughly 15 kg of CO2. So in CO2 terms manufacturing costs dominate massively over operating costs. Even if you run the computer for 10 years the energy consumption comes to less than half of the manufacturing footprint.
That's for modern laptops though, so I suppose if a 10 year old computer uses vastly more energy its possible it's energy consumption dominates over it's manufacturing footprint in a much shorter period.
https://circularcomputing.com/news/carbon-footprint-laptop/#....
The older laptop isn't likely to draw much more power. It will run far slower, however, most especially if it utilises spinning rust rather than SSD. But net draw will probably be 15--45 watts or so at load. Check your power unit rating.
For many tasks ... this doesn't matter. At the shell, I rarely notice the difference between running commands on a seven-year-old Android system vs. a ... somewhat similarly-aged iMac, despite the fact that the latter is literally an order of magnitude faster. There's simply not enough load on either system to make a difference between a command completing in 0.01s vs. 0.1s, both being below my perception threshold.
I do see the difference when, say, prodcessing larger JSON archives with jq, but that's really the only major differenct for direct interactive use.
A heavily-loaded server is of course a different matter. As is running a full-fledged GUI desktop browser (this makes older desktop bend and break, even with only 2--3 tabs open).
The other big difference is in going from classic desktop/laptop x86 architectures to low-power ARM or RISC-V, which can run on very minimal power --- most < 15 watts, some considerably less than this. Performance will vary, and many of these systems are 32 bit rather than 64 (which has major impacts on data and computational throughput), some lack maths coprocessors (which slows crypto). But again, the systems themselves are often surprisingly capable, with a verylow power budget.
In contrast, I'm not aware of any currently-produced computers made from completely-recycled materials, so any new hardware you buy will have components made of materials dug out of the earth & processed.
For instance, if this old machine is connected to a solar panel, then its operational emissions will be 0 gCO2eq/kWh (grams of carbon dioxide equivalent per kilowatt-hour of electricity) if its consumption is kept lower than the solar generation. If it is connected to a greener grid like CAISO, its emissions will be mostly green (~ 0 gCOeq/kWh) during afternoons (~ 12-6pm).
Sure, at browner times (6pm - 6am), this old machine should be turned off (unless there is wind coming to the rescue). But at greener times, it should use the excess energy that comes from renewables and that can't be stored to be useful elsewhere.
At the root of the error in short term thinking is pride. You think you know, but you don't know - not as you ought to know. So you stay trapped in a local minima. That local minima comes with unforced error. Which means a potential stochastic chance for extinction. Geometric probability distributions drives this to certainty. So in dying you die forever. Notice - nature doesn't optimize for longevity. Thus, it gains it.
The biospheres actual version of what they are trying to get at is absurdly different. Remember I said learning was counterintuitive? The actual solution was to "eat shit" and "die". If they were really taking advice from permaculture the idea of eating our own shit would have taken center stage. Manure isn't exactly an unfamiliar concept in that world. It is foundational. Literally, not figuratively, but literally. It is the dirt.
That doesn't work so well for BGA packages. I'd need to do some research to see if reflowing the solder would fix a low level of tin whiskers. Usually, the flux effectively increases the surface tension of the solder, causing it to form nicely around the pads and contacts. So it isn't clear to me how well the reflow will work without additional flux.
"Personal Mastery: If a system is to serve the creative spirit, it must be entirely comprehensible to a single individual."
Dan Ingalls. Design Principles Behind Smalltalk, 1981. http://worrydream.com/refs/Ingalls%20-%20Design%20Principles...
One helpful indicator would be the technology required to prompt and hold this discussion.
What’s the display like? If you have a calibrator, what’s the gamut?
They got the input devices right, but I’m curious if they got the output right. They paid attention to the DAC, so I have hope.
I had a look online, and there are similar compatible panels from innolux that have a glossy finish, which might be a mod I'll do in the future.
Do they have a roadmap for upgrades?
That ship sailed many decades ago.
For example, rather than "Care for Life" and "Care for Chips", those are still derived from the ethical principles of "Care for Earth", "Care for People", and "Fair Share". And those three ethical principles are more comprehensive. Further, it would contextualize the purpose of computing, and not just simply designing the thing itself, in isolation.
The 12 design principles for Permaculture are also far clearer because they contextualize the relationship of the computing with the people, rather than the design of the machine by itself.
For example, "Expose Everything" is not a bad design principle when looking at just the machine ("observability"), but it is not nearly as versatile as the more generalized Permaculture design principle of "Observe and Interact". It's more important to look at a computational device's place in the overall ecology. When I apply this to my backyard, I cannot always directly "observe and interact" the root system of plants. If I dig up the plant to examine its root system, then I have most likely killed that plant. I have to make guesses. Looking at it from a different angle, the Permaculture design concept of "Zones" was is a way to organizing things so one can systematically "Observe and Interact".
Another Peramculture design principle is "Integrate not segregate", another reason to "Expose Everything".
Another one is "Keep it small and simple" in which there are two better Permaculture design principles, "Use Small and Slow Solutions", and "Apply self-regulation and accept feedback". Those two principles allows for the system to adapt, change, and grow, within the local conditions, and take advantage of regenerative cycles.
So I think it is a nice try, but I think the author has not yet really applied the Permaculture principles sufficiently broadly and flexibly.
Computing and hardware technology ultimately comes from the assembly of what is mined. If so, maybe there is a place for developing a separate of design principles for things that are mined, not grown.
What separates things that are mined and things that are grown is that things that are grown are capable of regenerating on its own without the human beings doing anything. What's mined don't have that kind of autonomy, or if they do, they start to resemble things that are grown, and we would have to treat it as participants of an ecology. That includes integrating them with existing ecosystems, lest they become invasive (things that grow vigorously, but do not contribute anything to the existing ecosystem).
When I look at this as something that can last generations, the valve is simpler and probably more reliable. If we were to evaluate its resilience and anti-fragility, because it is produced with a much shorter technological dependency graph, it is more likely to be maintainable.
I marveled at the "curb cutting" that Brad Landcaster pioneered out in Tuscon. He dug basins for native trees and shrubs in public right-of-ways, and then cut notches in curbs. When the monsoon rains flush down the street, it fills up a basin, helps recharge the local aquifer, held by living plants. When the basin is full, there's a natural backpressure that then lets the rainwater flow to the next basin. There are no moving parts. The curb cut uses power tools, but if needed, you can chisel it out by hand using something that is lower-tech. Those are all technologies too, ones that may seem simple, perhaps primitive, but were deployed and used in alignment with permaculture ethical principles.
There was another book I have and the author talked about how they are intended to design their farm to grow multiple generations ... but they are willing to use a chainsaw for the initial build, a way of investing the last dredges of fossil fuels and power tools to set in motion something that can regenerate and keep on growing.
I think about some of Richard Stallman's essays. I remember the ones that laid down design principles for software that makes it accessible to people who may be blind, or have difficulty using a mouse, or even keyboard. It's laid out in terms of the principles of free software, but it could easily have come from permaculture ethical principles. I remember Christopher Alexander, and people's attempt to bring the ideas of living architecture, where inhabitants can make local changes that are still architecturally coherent. That would be end-user-modifiable software, such as Smalltalk or Hypercard. They don't web-scale and drive the aggregation flywheel, so it's been abandoned in consumer software.
I remember watching a documentary on a Native American elder speaking to her people about permaculture. How her initial reaction was that this was, yet again, another example of being told by arrogant people on what to do. Then she recounted how she saw people working the earth with reverence, and that went a long way towards credibility. In terms of permaculture, these people were living the permaculture ethical principles.
I don't think my life and career making a living with technology is a waste. There's a place for technology in all of this (rather than the inverse, a place for traditional values in technology). I've already been applying some of the permaculture design principles to how I work with Kubernetes, but I think there is a deeper change in my way of life that involves computer technology.
I think systems such as Nix/Guix would be useful for permacomputing, with which (unlike in many Linux distros) you can keep old libraries that older un-upgraded apps depend on right beside newer versions of those libraries.
I like the idea of piggybacking on permaculture but it's not a perfect analogy, because computing isn't exactly a naturally flourishing phenomenon.
What does carry over is the idea of being more thoughtful about computing, reducing energy waste, and generally architecting these systems for a longer time horizon. Perhaps in a way that can encourage stewardship over multiple generations.
But to get the design right, you need to make prototypes, and probably a lot of them. I try to minimize design mistakes because reprinting a part is tedious, but I still have a box full of 3D printed parts that turned out not to fit quite right.
This is also true of education. Most of what students create themselves is never really used. Either it's thrown away or gets put on a shelf somewhere. Making things badly and throwing them away is an essential part of education.
We don't need to make stuff all that lightweight, Moore's law seems to have won. We just need to not invent a new way to make things horribly slow or otherwise bad, like, by not making stuff cloud first or have a mandatory blockchain feature.
Of course, a movement can be about more than one thing at once, and if the permacomputing community values through and through simplicity for it's own sake, I can't argue with that.
You can also use streacom cases with Atom 8-core (load balancer) and Xeon for that extra kick in computing, but 3x Raspberry 4 can saturate a symmetric 1Gb/s.
Rather than 1x 10Gb/s it's better to have 2x 1Gb/s (preferably distant from each other) with all passively cooled components under 60 celcius at full blast during the hottest day in summer.
The whole capable of running atleast 24 hours on lead-acid backup.
(Obviously I'd buy supplies etc. too)
If this happens, you want a reliable, low-power, easy to maintain no-BS computer, since you have more important things to do than mess with that.
Now if we think a bit more into the future, at some point humans will start living in okay environments and we're probably going to want to start building computers again. Having some infrastructure for this would help in bootstrapping computing. Maybe we'll know better this time, maybe we wouldn't destroy our own civilization the second time.
This is obviously all just theorising, but I can see myself needing a reliable low-power computer during an apocalypse.
Meanwhile: cloudflare outage, SaaS and cloud oligopolies, browser monopoly.
Is it also available on gemini by any chance?