TITO: Electric Argentine car
argentinareports.com
argentinareports.com
Remember that the minimum wage here is around USD 200, so it's quite expensive as well. I'd rather get an ebike/scooter/used car and use it for longer trips.
It's like an enclosed golf kart that could be usefuly for residents of gated communities or small cities (not sure how it would handle in cities with hills like SF though :P)
No one seems to mention that it appears to be a copy of a chinese "Today Sunshine M1", but at 2.5x the cost :(
Is this usually a limiting factor for people? I've always put my groceries on the back seats or back floor, even if I have a trunk.
Why? Isn't it easier to a access the trunk?
There are some things that I need to permanently store in the car, and using backseats for that essentially makes them unusable for their primary purpose (hosting humans). I am not even talking about the bewilderingly very common in the US "I use my car trunk as a small storage unit" scenario. I am talking about storing things like backup tire, first-aid kit, electric tire pump+sealant combo (in case i get a small puncture in my tire, so that I can patch it up and get to the nearest parking lot/service center or home), a charging cable+adapters (in case you drive an EV), a change of clothes, a roll of paper towels, and maybe a change of clothing. Mind you, even with those things in mind, they won't take up a lot of space at all, and trunk is still very usable for groceries and other stuff.
The main issue is that without trunk at all, even a very small subset of bare essential things from that list (first-aid kit and a tire pump) essentially create a problem where they are always occupying the backseat area of the car, which makes it problematic for humans to use.
copy as in someone in Argentina Reverse engineered Chinese EV and is manufacturing it? or rebadge of Chinese made car while claiming to be "100% Argentine car" like that scam https://www.thelocal.se/20220129/hyped-swedish-car-start-up-...
If you can't compete, slap duties!
The only tricky part is that if the ruling party decides they don't like you, they'll 100% legally deny you the authorization to buy the dollars you need to import your parts. Then you're sunk: there's no legal way to import your parts, and as an aboveboard business you can't use parts you import illegally. So, better make sure you stay on their good side.
This is a big reason why our GDP is smaller now than it was ten years ago. We were already in a crisis before covid.
This is one of those things that sounds obvious at first, but the intuitive answer turns out to be false. They (the containers, not the port) are very easy to hide in plain sight. There are simply massive quantities of them and it would grind trade to a halt to be inspected en masse. Therefore in US at least shipping containers are laughable easy for smugglers to "hide."
In US whole shipping container full of illegal immigrant arrive. It's my understanding only a tiny fraction of container are meaningfully searched, and whole containers of imported material can enter the country illegally. Perhaps Argentina has much more sophisticated and honest customs and border protection than US. But also take into account profit on illegal imports can be very high in Argentina due to arbitrage against crippling taxation/duties. Example below.
Argentina definitely does not have customs officials as honest as those in the US, though perhaps they are more sophisticated.
Traveling via container is a thing I've contemplated doing myself, if only I had the budget.
Q: 200 USD over what time period?
Pay all bills due for the month and live off the rest.
Edit: I reread your comment and understand now! Sorry about that.
(I kid, I kid... Obviously attorneys on payroll do not get paid up front, just indy attorneys on retainer).
We are often expected to pay companies either ahead of time or on-demand when purchasing goods and services.
When we sell our labor, we generally are forced to accept a payment scheme designed by our employer that results in us getting paid much later, with the employer holding our money in the meantime.
[0]: https://www.reuters.com/world/americas/argentina-accelerates...
If you're changing a larger amount of money at the free-market rate you can get as much as US$207 for each $45540.
This car would be perfect for these trips.
I'm just glad someone, somewhere is considering a sane vehicle rather than this ridiculous size/speed arms race. The many, many costs of doing 80-120km/h are nowhere near worth halving the travel time (at best).
As for groceries, usually if those aren't local I carry them home on the bus or in an Uber, so a passenger seat to stack them on would be a nice upgrade.
Ah, and here I was thinking "not only the Chinese can rip off the design of better-known brands". That explains why the TITO looks like the result of a liaison between a Smart and a Mini. Also, the TITA truck has a "radiator grill" that just screams "BMW"...
Unless someone crashes into one of these mini fridges.
I found the car for less than 6 thousand USD in Alibaba.
Someone else on this thread claims that Argentina is selling it for 9.5 thousand USD.
The title claims it's a 100% Argentine car.
And yet the article states the following:
>In 2018 Coradir’s CEO and his team decided to develop a battery bank platform, motor train and all the associated electronics so that any national car manufacturer could develop its own version of TITO, but the project fell flat.
>“Then, we realized we already had a complete car and asked ourselves, ‘what if we make it available to the public?’ At that moment the 100% electric TITO was born,”
This is awful everything.
That said, Coradir's site seems to be a lot of rebranded gadgets so it wouldn't surprise me, but I haven't seen any actual proof of this, just speculation based on cars looking similar.
> The only official image published by Coradir Automotores shows the Tito with the original Today Sunshine M1 grille
Looks like they're importing them but with their own styling changes, and originally posted an unmodified Sunshine M1 on their website.
The article states that they failed to develop their own car platform so they decided to sell the car that they already had.
The car that they already had appears to be a Chinese car that you can buy online.
Thus, the claim that the TITO is a 100% Argentine car appears to be a lie.
If you look at the cars without bias you'll agree.
https://argentinareports.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/06/60dd...
https://argentinareports.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/06/tito...
https://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/MINI-Smart-Electric-C...
The cars are exactly alike in size, shape, proportion, body, etc., except for some minor cosmetic changes in the front grill.
There's clear differences even in the photos you provided. Obviously the front grill, but the lights are also a different shape, with the TITO more angular. The door frame is different, it looks like the TITO has a larger piece of chrome on the part you open. I'm sure there's other differences there if I were to look at different angles of the TITO.
Maybe Sunshine took TITO's design, maybe they're both based on some reference design made by some other company. They both clearly are supposed to be a squished MINI Cooper. Regardless of what happened, "my eyes" are not proof of it.
So, I ask again, what proof do you have that it is the case that TITO took Sunshine's design and/or is just a rebadged car?
"Design and bodywork: The design was taken from an existing Chinese product. The vehicle parts would be imported from China and the assembly would be done in San Luis. For later, they promise to produce the body parts in kevlar and aluminum material, with the support of a Munro (Buenos Aires) autopartist"
One company, probably foxconn, will build reference designs and individual companies will license those designs and tweak them, mostly on the interior and have foxconn either manufacture the entire thing or build the chassis/battery pack and let another company build the body/interior.
That way you can skip the Rnd Process and just require a factory to build/assemble these in the country they are required. Assembling a car isn't easy but its far easier than designing them from scratch and its something that many countries and companies already have plenty of experience with.
I think the parent commenter was talking more about a company specializing in the EV platforms like Hyundai-Kia's EGMP or VW's MEB on which other companies would build cars.
This is a blog by Frederic Filloux and Jean-Louis Gassee of Apple/BeOS fame.
P.S. Personally I use an EUC (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4rlw6fDmcQM&t=1s) for commuting and errands, but that's just me.
(German legislation actually doesn't make much sense because electric scooters are in fact less safe than EUCs; scooters don't require skill to ride, but they fail more often and in more spectacular ways.)
But i think even those are still too large for cities. In my view we need to clean the air _and_ free up space, hence something smaller would be more suitable. Imagine how much less traffic there would be on the m25 or london if they were limited to micro cars.
I sometimes pause and think about how we are able to harness the power of our star, or control atoms, to fuel our cars and power our homes instead of burning crap and inhaling smoke. I think we are getting somewhere.
The malaise from people/media is separating Non-renewability of FF + negative aspect of carbon emissions from the benefits of FF. So the first thing is to remove the militant climate alarmicism and focus on solutions.
Here is EU backpeddling the climate agenda that didn't have a sound backbone, this is what happens: https://www.ft.com/content/a8b179e2-b565-42b6-bb41-90aea4453...
Second, we need to adopt a radical pro-energy agenda that transforms us from FF-mix to renewable-mix. Here is what the current Democratic party can do (but they won't): https://twitter.com/JonSpearman24/status/1539044975429681152
Third, push back on people that want depopulation, regression of life, reduction of standards, "equity" based resource usage, etc under the name of ESG, Climate Change, etc.
The entire thing is a philosophical and political headwind. We could solve climate change completely and utterly if we invest in technology and build like a gazillion nuclear power plants.
It makes me wonder if the malaise is not rooted in facts, but the elite/laptop class that wants to crush lower class into depopulation for their own benefits (their kids would have a less competition for resources for survival).
Humanity didn't invent fossil fuels, they were already there when we discovered them and we haven't figured out how to make them ourselves in the quantity we need. This type of lazy thinking, where you pretending the work of someone else is entirely your effort when you literally can't replicate it and are even proud that you can't replicate it is honestly quite bizarre.
Humans only invented biofuels which would cause mass starvation because they displace food crops.
Fossil fuel dependence basically means humans are too dumb to generate their own energy. There is no dead plant matter buried in the sun, you're going to have to pull that energy out yourself.
I think it is sad that people want to hold back the entirety of humanity just so they can have a slightly better life for themselves and nobody else.
I don't think there are any rational reasons why it's not the most popular car in America.
>I don't think there are any rational reasons why it's not the most popular car in America.
It's still a subcompact. For the hordes and hordes of people who need a tad more utility out of a vehicle it just doesn't work without a level of compromise that is solidly into "yeah, F that" territory when you're paying new car money.
Furthermore, it's only economical to buy used because it's not super popular even on the used market. If it was they wouldn't be so cheap.
And I say this as someone who would own one yesterday if it could out "utility vehicle" a 1990s Taurus wagon. The execution is great but the concept that was executed is ill suited to what most people want in a car.
All subcompact hatches in the US market suffer from this.
Subcompact with tow ball so you can rent a small hanger for the few times you need more space for, say, a washing machine or fridge is so much better than an F-something size truck.
Oh, I forgot about stupid U.S. towing codes, nvm.
I don't "need" more utility than a small station wagon but the nanosecond I cram three kids into the back or slap some plywood on the roof 99.999% of the people telling me I don't "need" a modern crossover are going to be hand wringing hard enough to start a fire. God forbid I put a half dozen square of shingles or bags of concrete back there at which point I become a menace to society. I do it anyway because the kind of people who tend to care are not the kind of people who's opinions I tend to care about. But that doesn't scale.
"If it was they wouldn't be so cheap." If demand surged, Nissan would make more (barring any specific supply chain constraints). Mass producing cars at competitive prices is Nissan's core competency.
"ill suited to what most people want in a car." This is the actual problem in my eyes. Americans especially have a lot of frivolous ideas about what a car is supposed to be.
It depends on how far is your urban run-around. 62 miles seems reasonable, but not at $16,500 to $18,250 price point.
That said, it's also telling the fed gov has made little to no effort to promote such an idea. Thanks Big Oil?
If there's an underutilized resource in the First World, it's automobiles. They probably spend on average 22 or 23 hours of 24 hours doing nothing. Just sitting there. Uber-izing your own driving could change that, without exploiting under-paid drivers.
You might be able sell it as a motorcycle, but then passengers would be required to wear helmets and the driver would need a motorcycle endorsement on their license. Another option would be to sell it as an ATV, but states tend to restrict ATV usage on public roads.
The closest thing I can think of is e.g. communities that have dedicated paved roads (which don't allow normal cars) for golf carts to putt around.
You just don't see them because nobody in the US is willing to restrict the usage of normal cars, even where it's obviously needed.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neighborhood_Electric_Vehicle
If you want something small but more capable then an imported Japanese kei truck is worth considering.
"The basic edition costs around USD $16,500 and you’ll pay around $18,250 if you want air conditioning.
...
“TITO” is a 2.83 meter long, three-door urban car, with enough space for four people. It has a 4.5 kWh powered electric motor which receives its energy from a lithium battery with an eight kWh capacity. "
And it's a way better, 4-door highway-capable car.
I think that, with u$20k you can buy a tito, a Liliana fan, 6 square meters of sheets and a pole to sail when the engine is overused and you still have money to roast a barbecue for you and friend. And maybe roast that piece of ugly engineering too..
-_-
EDIT: just checked and the cheapest electric car in the EU, the Dacia Spring, has a 1 star (out of 5) in the NCAP test. Can't imagine what TITO would get.
I'm not saying that is the correct approach to classifying vehicles, just what I would expect to happen if it were brought to the US.
As far as the price, if Argentina has tariff protections for automotive production, that could explain the price.
I wish there was a NEV-plus standard that had a 40 or 45mph top speed, that could get me to work, part of my commute is on roads with a 45mph limit, and a NEV can't drive there. I don't mind avoiding freeways and sticking to smaller roads, but I'd still have to drive on 45mph roads.
I drive a small EV now and while it can go 80mph without any trouble, it's much more than I need in a commute vehicle.
Anecdata: I remember a poll where something like 4/5 of the Serbians asked considered life better under Tito than life in 2010: https://balkaninsight.com/2010/12/24/for-simon-poll-serbians...
Which is stroke of luck for him. He started off as brutal stalinist but then had the good sense to lack center and play the big power against each other.
That doesn't change the fact that he was a brutal commie. But a sensible one at least.
It may not be sexy, but it's what the world desperately needs.
Well one way appears to be rebadging no name vehicles to support pseudo philanthropic efforts.
To anyone this reads as “finally automotive independence for the developing world”, think again.
And, the car is the Tit-o, the truck is the Tit-a, and the SUV version should naturally be called the Tit-e. I'll bet it would be the most popular if the Argentine market is anything like the US market.
hm yeah nevermind, but i wouldnt be to surprised if there was some cooperation
It can go max 40mph and be awesome for city dwellers and delivery drivers.
And one day everyone in HN knew about that ugly, almost sure 100% stolen design, overpriced and maybe useles golf cart.
What a shame -_-