CEO and COO of Mindgeek (Pornhub, Youporn, redtube) resign
variety.com
variety.com
I can imagine they got sick of fighting for their company against the ongoing campaign to make them Pay for their past transgressions. It’s kinda hard to really sum up the whole situation now, you have spineless credit card processing companies, duopolistic credit card companies, religious anti-porn activists, feminist anti-porn activists, porn industry advocates, individual porn performers (“amateurs” ), the traditional porn studios, the end user customers, and the news media … all in one huge pot stewing over complex issues that most people don’t really bother digging into. Yes they did bad things, but they also weren’t as bad as some were painting them, and they also destroyed a chunk of the entire porn industry in one fell swoop as a knee jerk reaction to frantically damage control an issue that was primarily pushed by a smear campaign by a religiously funded group that wants to end all porn… they were an easy target due to social stigmas and they basically had a near lethal blow dealt to them, which had knock on effects to the entire industry they were the dominant player in.
It’s not a great situation and I don’t blame them for want the hell out of it. I’d probably have burned out too.
I totally agree that it's messed up that payment processors are now the internet morality police, but hosting those two kinds of harmful and illegal porn are 100% on MindGeek. Dissemination of those kinds of porn is very illegal, and as far as I know no one at MindGeek ever faced legal consequences, even though they were recklessly negligent and did it and on such a large scale for so many years. These guys were running things during this whole time and don't deserve any sympathy. Had MindGeek been following the law, moralist anti-porn crusaders would probably have had far less success than they did.
https://www.theverge.com/c/22925906/pornhub-mindgeek-content...
What I would like to know, is who the leaders of this company are politically connected to in order to not be held accountable for their actions.
You seem to confusing a description of “anti-porn hysteria” as an existing thing with a claim that all anti-porn inclination is hysteria, either in error or as a deliberate construction of a strawman to argue against. But, in either case, no one claimed the thing you are trying to argue against.
The payment processors are the internet morality police since at least 10 years. Paypal did this 10 years ago.
Note that it's not just a morality issue: porn sites have a tremendous number of chargebacks. As a result, payment processors ban categories where the risk is higher.
Given the amount of money they were making, it seems like they could have bought a processor by now.
Are not like all the videos on those sites copyright infringement anyway? I am actually suprised there is a "real" company for those sites.
Google still indexes revenge porn sites; I'm not going to look, but I'd be shocked if Google Videos can't find revenge porn. Last I heard, YouTube still had issues keeping explicit underage content off their site. Facebook is in a perpetual struggle with keeping pedophiles away from children. They've all had their share of issues with revenge porn. None of them have sufficient content filtering in place to wholly prevent this. Hell, the last time I was on Tinder, there was a significant number of people there just to buy/sell drugs. Uber's got drivers killing people.
MindGeek has an even harder time building content filters because they can't just outright ban nudity. They need content filters for "is this consensual", "is this person of age", etc. Those are hard for a human to judge, much less a machine, and drastically harder than "is anyone in the image naked".
TL;DR I don't think MindGeek did a good job, but nobody at that kind of scale is doing a good job of content filtering. It seems like an obvious double standard that MindGeek is expected to manually filter content, while YouTube allows in hundreds of gigs of data per minute without any manual review.
But I think it's only fair to hold the company to the standard they set for themself. They said that all the content was reviewed, but that definitely wasn't the case, and would've been physically impossible. That was a lie. Any sane person running or investing in a porn business that accepts user uploaded content should know that's much riskier than other user content sites because it's more inviting for this sort of thing and much harder to detect.
I would really encourage you to read that article if you haven't, I think this is beyond a question of the technical difficulties of user content filtering and crosses a line into criminal negligence. It's a hard problem to solve and every solution is imperfect, but from the information we have, they weren't really trying at all. And I say all of this as a person that thinks that most non-porn sites, especially YouTube, go way overboard with automated, proactive takedowns and am really cognizant of the encroachments on free speech.
In 2019, the operators of Pornhub content partner Girls Do Porn would be charged with sex trafficking in the US. Following the charges, 50 women filed a class-action lawsuit against MindGeek in 2020, alleging that MindGeek knew Girls Do Porn employees were coercing and lying to performers about how their videos would be used. Still, MindGeek continued to partner with the studio, allowing their videos to be distributed on Pornhub and other tube sites. Pornhub ostensibly removed the Girls Do Porn videos after the operators were arrested, but clips remained available on the site.
------ I contacted MindGeek hoping to answer the nagging questions I had about how content moderation was handled when I worked there. Specifically, I asked: were user uploads screened by Manwin employees before being published live?
“All content was reviewed by human moderators at that time,” a spokesperson named Ian responded, adding that this applied to all tube sites.
Somehow, that didn’t seem right to me. Hundreds, if not thousands, of videos were uploaded to tubes every day back then, and I wasn’t aware of anyone screening the uploads. Was it feasible that every single video was reviewed and approved by someone before going live? And if that was the case, how could illegal or pirated content still end up on the sites? I followed up with more questions, trying to clarify how the process worked: Had there been a team reviewing videos before they went live working around the clock, including weekends, while I was there? Or were we after-the-fact moderators the only ones accountable for the content?
The company didn’t respond to my follow-ups, but my questions were answered by Pornhub moderators who spoke out in December 2020. They recounted how they were handed lists of thousands of videos on the site to review and, if warranted, remove. This suggests that only once videos were on-site, ballooning Pornhub’s content offering, were they gradually reviewed, leaving wide-open windows for any type of video to exist on the site, at least for a while.I think you're glossing over this. They systematically allowed and profited from obviously illegal content. For years there was essentially not even an attempt to really prevent child porn on their site.
It's one thing to go the Youtube route for civil stuff like copyright violations, but there's no putting the genie back in the bottle with child porn and rape. If an individual were found to have the videos that MindGeek had, they would've spent a lifetime in prison, not become millionaires.
I still remember when Feras was on stage at a town hall meeting 2ish years ago telling us that the company wasn't going to do any RRSP matches to the employees because we were "too young to think about retirement", all the while driving around his bright yellow Porsche Cayenne and getting his 19 million dollar mansion built.
Considering they were still reeling from Visa and MC cutting off their service and having to rely on cryptocurrency for payment, it's no surprise to me that now that crypto is failing hard, the value of those payments is vastly reduced and so is, probably, existing cash that was still in the crypto space.
As with anything else at one point you get desensitized by the same content, since it was all test data and not live production stuff, it didn't get updated often.
Previous discussion on that: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31724701
Feras himself seemed very motivated to make the company and industry bigger. He was a very motivated guy and I look forward to see what he'll do next.
For the same reason that an innocent person may plead guilty: because the expected outcome is better than the alternative.
You quit a job because its not a job that, on balance, you want anymore.
Like, have you never quit a job other than because you felt you had committed some kind of wrongdoing?
dragonwriter indicated that he was talking to me by responding to my post and using the word "you".
Are you not even following the thread?
I need to be able to trust my workplace, and saying "whoops our bad" wouldn't cut it.
Stress can be one reason.
Um... they sort if did do something wrong and have taken drastic measures to try to correct it. But like any other content moderation system, what they did wasn't perfect, and they're still under fire for the wrong things they are continuing to do.