Samsung Busted for Cheating TV Test Benchmarks
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1) Samsung televisions spy on your mercilessly. They collect everything they can, including screenshots at regular intervals and send them back to Samsung so that they can sell this to "partners". They are not a FAANG and don't have anywhere near their level of security expertise. I have second-hand but reliable information about their security approach, and "laughable" doesn't begin to describe it. Assume that whatever you watch on a Samsung TV is being relayed to multiple state-level spy agencies.
Ref: https://www.samsung.com/us/business/samsungads/resources/tv-...
2) Even if you buy a flagship Samsung television for five figures, it's virtually guaranteed that within a year or two they will release an update the slows it down to molasses. These things have controller boards with miniscule amounts of RAM in them, and they use the same firmware across all models. When a new model with more RAM is released, they add more features, causing all older models that self update to start swapping to the pagefile. I've seen several Samsung televisions across several model years and price points get slowed down until response times are up to 2 seconds for most actions. This is "unusable garbage" quality, for crazy money.
NEVER buy a Samsung television, ever. You're treated as the product, not the customer, despite paying them a lot of money.
PS: This isn't even the only display calibration cheating that they do! Practically all Samsung models use a "shop mode" that cranks up brightness to 11 and oversaturates the colours. Even in "normal" mode Samsung televisions have forced "enhancements" that can't be turned off. There is no "calibrated mode", because it would look like trash on these over-priced televisions.
I personally use an Apple TV for this, but in general this can be frustrating for users that just want their Smart TV to work without spying on them or implementing centrally triggered scheduled obsolescence.
This is a bit like saying you should "never" turn on your new car's engine and should immediately swap it out for a third-party one, because every knows Manufacturer X leaves ticking time bombs in their engines.
This is why consumer protection agencies are created by governments!
I also had a Fire Stick and a Roku but refused to keep using them after reading their privacy policies (their UIs are also complete and utter trash, they are so terrible compared to Apple TV)
I think the advice to never allow a screen to connect to Wi-Fi is reasonable, and I tell my family the same. In the past I have give them old Apple TVs or help them set one up to ensure that they are not allowing spyware on their network
Agreed that this needs to be handled by government, as the level of data abuse by these companies is unacceptable
Enjoy them while they last (see Part III): https://www.natlawreview.com/article/fifth-circuit-decision-...
If all you want is a TV (as in, connecting to an antenna and tuning to over-the-air channels), you don't need any "smarts".
(The main difference between a TV and a monitor is that a TV has a tuner, while a monitor doesn't.)
Imo nothing beats a laptop with a wireless mouse and keyboard. So much better than a shitty remote. Browsers and Google are familiar. Can also do games. Can access whatever sites you want or things the smart device wouldn’t approve of. All of these devices like Apple TV and fire sticks seem pretty dumb to me.
- Most people don't know what they're missing re: clunky interface controls
- Most people want a single feature-complete device that doesn't take up an HDMI port or require another set of cables to connect (yes, that's trivial, even enjoyable, for 'us', but 'they' are not 'us').
Cost of chromecast+remote: $30
Cost of secondhand laptop + wireless keyboard/mouse: $250
To me it’s an obvious choice.
I don’t think it’s at all like that.
If anything, it’s more like saying don’t use your car’s built-in navigation, and instead, use another connected device for navigation.
The engine is a critical part of a car — without it, it can’t function. Period.
A TV doesn’t have to be smart to operate it, and you can’t buy a TV without it, even though it’s 100% not necessary, especially if you already have another device for that.
Again, it’s like cars with navigation — completely unnecessary, especially if you have another device for that.
The best thing to do is not support this immoral garbage through apathy or ignorance.
I'm not saying they wouldn't do it but I'd prefer some proof before judging them (without having to shell out to be the guinea pig).
Wireless networking is something I usually avoid in a technical capacity, but this seems like something worth messing around with (and reporting back on).
https://web.archive.org/web/20190521054343/https://www.reddi...
The reason there are likely so few reports is because a)open wifi networks are very rare b)you can't really tell that the TV has done it, until it shows its hand (as in the case above, notifying the user that it auto-updated itself.)
If it’s not showing you ads, it might not be connected. It could still be connected and performing all sorts of shenanigans without necessarily showing you any ads.
If you're really concerned about proof, just go to a hifi store and turn on your mobile hotspot without a password - I bet you could get a TV somewhere to connect with minimal effort.
When we have proof of one manufacturer connecting to an open wi-fi network to send its snooping data, we’ll have a a reckoning on our hands. I guarantee it.
Then she sat down nearby and used her iPhone. Immediately a message popped up on the monitor telling her it had detected her iPhone and did she want to set up some app or remote thing
It was incredibly creepy and I imagine it was implemented by scanning for nearby Bluetooth devices
Yes, this should not be necessary, but actual legislated protections for this kind of behaviour don't exist, and aren't even being discussed at any high-enough level that makes it appear that action may be closer than a decade away (unless maybe in Europe, in which case may be only five years away).
BTW, I'm pretty sure the only Samsung TVs that are five figures are the 98" beasts. My 75" QN90A was $1600, and the middle tier models are much cheaper and look great.
This doesn't parse. It's like saying 'this apple is rotten but it's fine'.
If the apple is rotten, then it is not fine.
If the television has annoying ads, then it is not fine.
"Hey earlier today you fell down, how's your elbow feeling?"
"Not too bad, it's annoying but it's fine"
The use of double negatives stood out as something more commonly used in British English however I accept it was a very small sample size!
It's up to you how you feel about the privacy issue, of course, but that's not how risk works. It's additive. The fact that you take other risks, bigger or smaller, doesn't rationally change the value of this risk.
https://sfconservancy.org/blog/2021/mar/25/install-gplv2/ https://sfconservancy.org/blog/2021/jul/23/tivoization-and-t... https://events19.linuxfoundation.org/wp-content/uploads/2017...
Now I have the internet disabled on it and just use an Xbox for smart stuff, will probably get an Apple TV next time they upgrade it.
Mind you, the Xbox does just as much snooping, but at least the Xbox fetches updates over encrypted channels and doesn't let anyone on the same network have root access to the TV's linux installation.
What a weird thing to say. Are you suggesting that it's fine that FAANG companies also spy on you mercilessly, because their security is ostensibly better?
Back in 2017 a security researcher found 40 zero-day vulnerabilities in Samsung's Tizen OS. [1][2]
[1] https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2017/04/samsungs-tizen-is-ri...
[2] https://www.vice.com/en/article/xy9p7n/samsung-tizen-operati...
You don't feel the same about FAANG? And by state-level spy agencies you mean government spy agencies, or something else?
[1] https://gist.github.com/peteryates/b44b70d19ccd52f62d66cdd4b...
Whereas I fall into the "I could, but why should I?" category of people who mostly try to buy devices that don't actively spy on me in the first place (doesn't work so well for modern phones or games consoles).
Same here.
I've three Samsung TVs of various age none of which has been connected to the internet (in fact, only one has that capability). Knowing what I know now I would never connect a Samsung TV to the internet - in fact I'd never buy another Samsung TV set, phone or other appliance again.
The people behind Samsung who authorized the spying as well as those who've attempted to fool testers into believing the specs are better than they actually are have shit ethics - there's no other way of putting it more politely (as this is a public forum, I've toned down my language considerably).
I've been around in tech and engineering quite some time and I am alarmed at how the ethics of engineering people have waned over recent decades. In recent decades, we've regularly seen unethical engineering practices introduced into products in ways that in the past would never have even been considered let alone that would have ever made their way to market. Samsung is not alone, remember the Volkswagen fiasco; now it's commonplace - Microsoft et al.
In this laissez faire environment sans ethics it seems that almost any behavior is acceptable. I often wonder why those in my profession who are responsible for the introduction of such products no longer object to designing them in unethical ways. (If engineers objected on mass to such practices, management would have difficulties enforcing such policies.)
As I see it, two approaches are needed: the first is the need for proper legislation that would outlaw such practices with the aim of protecting consumers, and the second is publicly exposing those who are responsible for them (legislation should ensure violators cannot hide behind a corporate façade). Engineers would object to designing unethical products if they knew their names were associated with them and that they were being held responsible.
Moreover, professional bodies such as ACM and IEEE, etc. should be proactive in this by expelling members found guilty of unethical practices associated with their profession. This would go a long way to stopping such practices, I reckon.
Incidentally, for some decades I was a member of both the IEEE and ACM and I withdrew from their membership because they failed to uphold their own ethics. Especially the IEEE, it rarely, if ever, questioned unethical and questionable engineering practices. It seems to me these organizations should be embarrassed into actively doing something to stop the slide in ethics amongst their members.
I'm also of the opinion that we need some deep research into exactly what has happened to the engineering ethos over past decades. Laws and sanctions as mentioned above may provide a partial solution but finding the underlying cause and rectifying it is clearly the ideal one.
I just recently upgraded my LG B8 OLED TV to a C9 model by switching out the main board with one I got from eBay. Now I have 4K@120Hz, HDMI 2.1, and VRR ;)
Practically every TV does this. It makes them look better in brightly lit shops, and any TV that doesn't will look washed out next to all the ones that do even if they are actually better. Always review display settings when you get a new visual device, even if you buy online (devices are set this way out of the box rather than relying on the showroom making any tweaks, so all purchase methods are affected).
At minimum it would require consent
Isn't this a gross violation of privacy and be clearly illegal? I could be playing my home videos with very private content. Add to that copyright violation if they are using screenshots of my content for commercial purposes.
The bigger danger is that you could be watching something on a streaming system that could land you in jail in an authoritarian country. No amount of HTTPS encryption or VPNs will save you if the decoded image is sent raw back to Samsung — where it is not safe and secure!
Source / Proof?
Likewise their TV OS is subpar and region locked, not that Android is any better or the other OSes.
All the TVs right now are really bad and not worth the money. My price limit was 600€. I ordered 4 TVs and returned them all, the worst was a "TCL" TV which had such a weak CPU that it couldn't even decode a 2MB/s SD stream.
Recently Samsung had a bad batch of SSDs and they sold them via Amazon and despite them knowing that the batch was bad it wasn't pulled, instead they lowered the price. One guy bought 8 , 5 died and 2 were in spare mode and despite them being from the same batch the refused to replace the 2. Imagine buying a 4TB SSD, copying your stuff over from the old HDD to have it die 2 months later.
So garbage they still can't hire techs in LA. They pay you commission but only only on closed and profitable calls. They are almost never closed due to backorders of parts, especially boards, and especially now.
Samsung and LG are both the same garbage in different packages.
For TVs Id do your best to find a dumb one or use a monitor.
For applicances it depends but stay away from Maytag and Whirlpool and Kitchenaid. WP bought out maytag and now both are garbage. Speed Queen makes amazing washers and dryers, kitchen applicances I'd try and go with Subzero for refrigerators and freezers, and ranges don't really matter just stay away from induction heating and dual or cabinet-microwave ranges.
Just my $.02 after working on them and still being WP certified. IMO WP/Maytag and Amana are probably the worst. Samsung and LG not far behind, doubly so for their insane prices.
Costco even offers a 4 year warranty if you buy with their credit card.
The only good (read- meant to last) fridges are older ones.
Same for washers and dryers, can't tell you how many times someone would get a new set, sell or donate their old ones, and get pissed when one or both stop working and require extensive repairs within the first few months.
Costco, Home Depot, Lowes, Urners, we did the repairs for them all. Wish I'd taken pictures of the warehouse full of brand new units we had to diagnose and repair.
It's gotten so bad for instance maytag still has some units with 10 yr parts and labor (but it's only on select parts). Say I had a bad frontloader with a drum issue- boot warped, literally anything where I'd need to disassemble the case to get to the drum- they'd just send a whole new assembly. Still a bitch of a job, still quite a few hours, still an expensive part, and definitely would have been cheaper to replace the unit. Still we'd have to effect the repairs. Nothing makes any sense.
Edit to add- a few years ago now Frigidaire was merged with Electrolux. Shortly thereafter their 'website was hacked'. Their words. They have not, to this very day, gotten that back up and running. Need to look up a Frigidaire/Electrolux/Amana/whatever other names they use part number? Service issues? Good luck, you have to call them from on site and sit there for hours (super common with WP too).
Apparently no one had a backup. Or was able to put something new together within two years
This is how little these companies give a fuck about customers or the equipment they sell.
I always buy from Costco so that would have to be 16 years. I would rather invest the difference in cost and keep buying new every 4 years.
Refrigerators used to last 10-20 years for a fraction of the price.
I feel like the calculation is more like spend $1k to $2k for a machine with 80% probability of lasting 5+ years, and 50% chance of lasting 10+ years, or spend $5k+ for machines with a 95% chance of lasting 10 years. But the problem is the subzero does not come with a parts and labor warranty for 10 years, so might as well go with the former option, and replace it if it breaks.
And also, I am not running a mission critical operation at home where a broken fridge is going to drastically affect our lives (we have a 2nd in garage anyway), so why not take the gamble, and invest the extra money?
So much for the environmental impact of that production and shipping...
You have to use specific pots and pans, regular ones will destroy your glass.
They are too expensive, and from what I understand pretty hard to cook with (I've not used them myself aside from testing and whatnot).
They simply aren't worth the added hassle, fragility, and added expenses. If it did something super awesome to offset those issues it wouldn't be so bad.
Maybe some knockoffs do, but basically the only way to crack the glass is to make something heavy like a pot fall from a serious height on it.
> You have to use specific pots and pans, regular ones will destroy your glass.
That's untrue, they just need to be metallic for the induction to work
> They are too expensive, and from what I understand pretty hard to cook with (I've not used them myself aside from testing and whatnot).
No? They aren't harder to cook than any other cooktop.
> They simply aren't worth the added hassle, fragility, and added expenses. If it did something super awesome to offset those issues it wouldn't be so bad.
They're the best electric option - fastest to warm and cool, and most efficient. Gas belongs in the past for most people ( air quality, pollution, risks ( like leaks, fires) and in general we should be moving away from all fossil fuels).
2- if you think 'metal' pots and pans is all they need... I don't even know how to reply to that.
3- I only have hearsay.
4- best electric option? Dude you are arguing with a repair tech about things from the consumer side. They are hands down the worst option and universally hated by techs.
You may prefer them and that's fine, but google can inform you on the myriad problems apparently better than I can.
'gas belongs in the past' lol ok, wait till your power goes out. Or do electric, but not induction. There's a reason sales for them fell off a cliff and stayed there.
But, more power to you, if you like induction that's fine.
As mentioned below def use rinse aid, but I've also seen where people use too much rinse aid and it clogs the spray arms, etc.
You can google your model number and see the steps to enter diagnostics, as well as what the different codes mean.
Why? This is hands-down the best there is, not only from a control perspective but also safety and easy-to-clean too.
https://www.lg.com/levant_en/mobile-phones
No idea if it's good or bad.
I had one of their phones in 2013, LG G2. I found it was decent for the time and had no complaints.
The washing machine says every load is unbalanced. Small load of only socks? Unbalanced. Large load of blankets? Unbalanced. Moderate load of normal clothes. Unbalanced. If that weren’t bad enough, it doesn’t know how to keep track of time. It has a countdown timer showing how much time is left on the wash. The dryer does, too. They count down at different speeds. They can both be at “10 minutes left” and 10 minutes later the washer still has like 3 minutes left. Well, actually 2 because, unlike the dryer, it stops counting down at 2 instead of 1 for some reason. Also, if you put clothes in it and choose only a spin cycle because they’re wet but not dirty (usually because you just washed them and the load was unbalanced and stopped in the middle), it adds water and rinses them again anyway. Note that this is despite having a separate “rinse and spin” cycle. Sometimes the washer just doesn’t turn on. I press the button and nothing happens. I have to unplug it and plug it back in.
While the dryer counts down properly, that’s about the only thing it does properly. If you set the drying temp, then change the amount of time to dry, it changes the temp back to high. Hope you didn’t have anything that will shrink in that load! It will also be crispy when you pull it out.
LG appliances are so comically bad I can’t even fathom how anyone could say anything good about them.
That is usually because modern laundry washing machines don't run on fixed-time schedules, they detect how much load they have and how much water is remaining in the clothing and adjust the cycle lengths for ecological reasons (when the clothes are already dry, no need to spin / dry them further). A fixed-time machine would never be able to hit energy efficiency requirements.
On the other hand, they're one of the biggest plastics producers in the world.
Note: I own a Bosch the internals are great but the plastic is too thin in parts especially the corners of the top of my stand-alone dishwasher model since they broke.
But dishwashers it was almost unanimous, Bosch is best.
I couldn't afford new ones, so I found good deals on second hand 500 series ones and they're both still going fine for myself and my rental suite (only a year and a half so far though).
Crazy quiet too, I suggest people opt for the one that shines a light on the floor cause otherwise you can't hear it running (or finish).
There's also a fancier model that projects a timer.
2017 ice makers leak water (mine does this). https://www.wsoctv.com/news/local/new-development-samsung-ic...
2022: fridge gets too warm: https://www.cbsnews.com/news/samsung-refrigerator-class-acti...
Dishwasher: POS, ‘nuf said.
Induction stove: cooktop has been excellent, oven convection gave up the ghost.
(That's more coincidence than brand loyalty, my Laden (French cheap brand) washing machine has also been working with no maintenance need for 13 years)
The now surprising thing is there are no ads, and my AppleTV 4K(2nd gen) is more than good enough to watch everything I want to on it. Only QD-OLED and HDMI 2.1 and more expansive HDR are going to get me to upgrade at this point.
Since Xerox tried its hand in shady electronics and burnt badly, they can't make bad printers. Hence, their printers' reliability is at HP Laserjet 4L levels. I'm on my second Samsung printer, because I've worn the first one's rollers down, and this one will probably last another 7-8 years, at least.
Then god knows what I'm gonna buy.
This is one if the reasons why I have local backups (as well as off-site backups) on a RAID mirror containing drives from distinct manufacturers. I don't trust any of them not to pull this sort of crap, hopefully if I buy two from distinct sources they might not fail at the same time.
OTOH, TV market has evolved to something bizarre since I stopped watching TV. Now, every big player is rolling out an armada of TVs from low end to high end, and fanboys of these brands fight relentlessly about every itty bitty detail in forums, face to face, etc..
I know, details matter, but nothing is perfect and this bike-shedding is not healthy in my opinion.
When I tell the brand and model of the TV I got, some of my friends counter "but brand X's model Y is actually better because..." with flaming eyes and with an instant enthusiasm. No, it's not. I've got the best TV for my needs and budget, and I'm happy. Thank you.
I like to look at TVs when I go to the store and personally just looking at them side by side for me visually I would tend to want to pick between LG or Panasonic. But my friend prefers Samsung but it always looks tooooo vibrant to me.
The video processor in that thing is very nice too. I'm using it with out of the box settings, and I don't feel the need to tweak anything, yet.
The model I have doesn't have blatant ads (and it's not a Samsung), so I'm a happy camper.
In Taiwan my father in law has a Sony TV with Android, it's a tiny bit slow, but it's acceptable. There's no Ads on it yet.
I'm yet to experience ad's but seems like alot of people are beginning to, makes me worried.
Both go on to recommend the other's first choice as a good alternative pick (the primary difference being whether compact or full-size is better for most people). So that tells me for at least one specific category, they're in agreement.
Does Rtings go into a lot more detail about each keyboard? Absolutely. But that isn't necessarily useful to me--part of the reason I use the Wirecutter is so that I don't end up spending days trying to find the perfect item in a category[3]. I read the review, seeing if there are any caveats for its top pick that matter to me, and make a choice based on that.
So what I don't want to do when buying something that both review is to read through both reviews, because either: (A) they agree, like on the wireless keyboard, in which case I've wasted a little bit of time, but in the grand scheme of things, it's fine, or (B) they disagree, because now I'm tempted to go through and weigh each detailed point which is something I'm trying to avoid!
[1]: https://www.rtings.com/keyboard/reviews/best/by-type/wireles... [2]: https://www.nytimes.com/wirecutter/reviews/the-best-bluetoot... [3]: https://xkcd.com/1036/
rtings, on the other hand, offers much more in-depth reviews. I've used them to decide on monitors, TVs, and higher-end headphone purchases so far and their reviews were excellently detailed and accurate.
They should review the product entirely, or they are wasting everybodies time.
Hardware encryption was implemented so poorly that Microsoft said “enough is enough”, and simply dropped all such features from BitLocker.
It is impossible to enable this feature on any supported version of Windows.
(The straw that broke the camel’s back was apparently some vendors using “all zeroes” as the master encryption key.)
Samsung should be charged with false advertising.
If I wasn’t too lazy I would report them to the ACCC.
They also hyped the hell out of Apple removing the headphone jack...and then did the same thing. Ditto for Apple removing the default charger; Samsung quietly followed suit not long after Apple.
The whole headphone jack thing is a joke. Just buy the sub-$10 Apple lighting or USB-C headphone adapter. An adapter that tests better than more than half of the "high end" "audiophile" DACs.
Mine now lives on the end of my one pair of wired headphones. It has been very rough, but somehow I have managed to persevere.
I have a friend who worked at Apple then later ended up at Samsung. He said that any original idea at Samsung was immediately squashed and they were basically told when designing features to do whatever Apple did. So I’m not too surprised by that.
We (collectively speaking) do the same at work. We optimize for what gets us promoted rather than what benefits the company. Companies optimize for revenue rather than a good user experience.
This behavior of trying to game/cheat the benchmarks is entirely consistent with human behavior in other areas of life.
I don't feel the need to chase more money at the cost of my QoL
We were talking about working on things that are good for the company vs good for the performance review process. The fact that there's a difference and that it's distinct from wellbeing is why at big companies some people with 5yoe make 3x as much as people with 30 yoe.
Great observation, in fact by default one must make that assumption of anything related to human undertakings, unless proven otherwise.
I know it's a big company, but some of the design and APIs were just an endless stream of WTFs.
of course it harmed people - people spent money on TV sets that do not perform as they expect because samsung was purposely cheating on the tests. All of their customers were potentially harmed, as well as Samsung's competitors.
https://www.flatpanelshd.com/news.php?subaction=showfull&id=...
It answered a question I was going to ask, which is "why don't they just run in benchmark mode all the time?" And the answer is apparently because the extra brightness can not be sustained without damaging the panel.
As alternatives. I believe it's possible to get sinage/display TV's which are still dumb (but much more expensive) and one could look at getting a huge 'computer monitor' as well.
https://www.androidauthority.com/samsung-tv-benchmark-cheati...