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Comment by nsxwolf | Hacker News Reader

I can't imagine trashing my CEO and expecting to keep my job. Maybe that's a Gen-X thing?

Maybe they actually believed his statements regarding unlimited free speech. It's not backed by evidence but SpaceX does attract dreamers.

I don’t think any definition of free speech guarantees total freedom from repercussions?

Isn't that the definition of free speech that Musk wants for Twitter?

The purpose of Twitter is speech. People like Musk argue it is analogous to a public space. Twitter users don't work for Twitter and are not subordinates of Twitter. Do you also imagine that Musk believes service people ought to be allowed to mock their superior officers to their faces without repercussions?

Musk got someone fired from a job because they once worked for the SEC.

So I imagine Musk believes anyone who causes him displeasure, in any form, even by association, should be put in their place by measures including, and up to, loss of livelihood.

I'm not so sure he gives a damn about anyone in the military, unless they run afoul of the ideas presented in previous statement.

That lawyer INVESTIGATED Musk. I don't think Musk behaved very well in that situation, but if you are a law firm and you rely on Musk's companies for business, maybe don't hire a government lawyer who went after him?

The government lawyer didn't go after him, the government did.

The purpose of Twitter is money, not speech. Speech is their product, and as a private company, they're allowed to decide what products they sell.

Maybe freedom from Twitter censoring you, but not freedom from repercussions from what you said (or tweeted). That’s ultimately determined by e.g. the courts and (as in this case) employers.

Actually, about half of the political spectrum of the US believes (or steadfastly pretends to believe) that this is precisely what "free speech" means.

I guess they haven't processed the famous XKCD on this issue.

I would bet real money the fired employees have shared that particular XKCD comic a lot.

The other thread is full of this nonsense. You give the impression that you believe that free speech absolutists think you ought to be allowed to walk up to your CEO and tell him to go fuck himself, without retaliation. What other things would you have us believe that free speech absolutists would allow? Catcalling coworkers, perhaps? Threatening to murder someone's children?

No, you just want to snipe at Musk, and you see this is a way to do it.

His actions show that he considers calling someone a child molester to be acceptable speech so it isn't too much to think that much more polite speech he would not have an issue with.

That person was not a boss or coworker, he was a stranger who had insulted him.

It's completely wild how over the past twelve months the anti-Musk people have somehow eclipsed the pro-Musk people in their monomania and inability to step back and objectively consider any situation.

> It's completely wild how over the past twelve months the anti-Musk people have somehow eclipsed the pro-Musk people in their monomania

He's a perpetually online guy, it was bound to happen. If he shut up every now and then it would help.

If he realized he can't derive unified theories of social behavior through logic untainted by the real world and then proudly announce them to universal acclaim, he could probably go back to the widely enjoyed persona of a year or two ago where the only die hard haters were Boeing stock holders.

> objectively consider any situation

hHaha, ok, I look forward to the objective discussion of the relative merits of calling someone a "pedo". Super objective!

> If he realized he can't derive unified theories of social behavior through logic untainted by the real world

This isn't at the root of what we're discussing here. That would be like applying Postel's law to natural language, confirmed by your own experience of receiving maybe a few passing "death threats" per month while bantering, while brushing aside the predicament of someone who receives ongoing death threats from a persistent stalker.

Rather, this topic just seems to be basic hypocrisy. If one cannot stomach a critique written in good faith to make one's company better, it's utterly disingenuous to invoke appeals to free speech elsewhere.

I feel like your rights to access the internet should be revoked until you can read your own comment.

Did you read the letter? No where does it tell musk to go fuck himself. That’s your characterization.

I read the letter, and thought it was reasonable. If it was my company, I would allow it. Been a founder several times, so that’s not just wild speculation. The only way to get your reading of it is if you have super thin skin and can’t take any criticism.

My comment has nothing to do with the letter. It’s about people using a false idea of what Musk’s position on speech is to score easy points.

Hilariously, in both threads I have not seen a single comment claiming that "spacex is a private company and free speech doesn't apply and blah blah blah".

As far as I can tell, having a billion dollars thins your skin pretty appreciably. Takes a few years for some people, but it seems to get them all in the end.

I guess with that kind of money you become acclimated to the company of sycophants, so critics become particularly vexing.

One can reasonably take positions such as "you can tell me to go fuck myself, and I'll appreciate if you articulate why" and "I don't mind being catcalled". I would expect someone describing themselves as a "free speech absolutist" to take such positions.

(Leaving aside your tangent of trying to make those decisions for others)

Of course. People like to point out the man's hypocrisy. He claims to feel that people shouldn't be punished for the things they say, but has a long history of punishing people for the things they say.

He makes it so easy, and everyone can tell by his personality that it grates on him.

> you ought to be allowed to walk up to your CEO and tell him to go fuck himself

Yes. Every day of the week. Yes.

He means soviet-style free speech. People were free to share opinions. The party was free to book them a ticket to the nearest gulag.

I would expect the sorts of employees that would write a letter like that are more of the "free speech for me, not for thee" types.

I think its more of a later millennial and Gen-Z thing.

Gen-X was more--call out "the man" and then taking being fired as a badge of pride

Gen-Z wants to call people out without repercussions.

Amazing how harmful trashing educational and economic opportunities was for democracy. We could always get jobs with benefits and almost enough money for a house and family. They can’t.

The trouble makers amongst Gen-Z are mostly the privileged college educated ones. The working poor aren't too tired from being exploited to engage in this stuff.

Nice propaganda.

Gen-X is middle management at these companies. That generation has never been a martyr for ANY cause - isn't Gen-X's whole "thing" that they're all nihilists and nothing matters etc etc?

People should be called out. Musk is always talking about upending established orders and questioning the status quo - guess he's more interested in loyalists.

Gen-X when they were young were sort of anti-conformist and anti-corporate. "Selling out" was the biggest insult. You see it reflected in the popular media of the time--like Office Space and Matrix. But in order to have financial success and raise families they "sold out" and went to work for the man.

>People should be called out. Musk is always talking about upending established orders and questioning the status quo - guess he's more interested in loyalists.

Depends what you mean by calling out because must of current call out culture is toxic garbage. I think successful organizations need to encourage questioning decisions. But questioning isn't the same thing as loudly criticizing in a public manner.

Would your CEO behave like Musk and expect zero consequences and zero push-back from the the board, the public, and the employees?

If it bothered me that much I'd look for a different job.

And that's the problem here. They would have ended up looking for different jobs anyway. Others will leave too. The only people working there will be other assholes.

So acting like an infant.

Maybe the current “thing” is to recognize what happens after getting fired and learn to exploit it: outrage PR, podcast and media spots, outreach by like minded people with other opportunities, etc

It’s a different time.

It's a “living in any developed and most non-developed nations that aren't the U.S.A.”-thing.

Courts in the E.U. would not look kindly upon being fired in retaliation for criticizing the public behavior of one's employer.

> Maybe that's a Gen-X thing?

I'd guess not. We (gen x) grew before social media wokeism and have an understanding that thrashing your company or boss publicly isn't the smartest move. I bet these are some entitled zoomers right out of a college.

Maybe you just have no self respect?

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