Comment by random-human | Hacker News Reader

Comment by random-human | Hacker News Reader

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>> As I grow older, I see a huge divide between those who have/had parental support vs those who don't/didn't.

This really gets lost in the traditional nuclear family argument. From personal experience, having both biological parents in the same house doesn't mean a healthy family environment, and no amount of moralizing is going to wish it into being.

Also overlooked is the impact one can have through simple acts of support and empowerment.

Had a High School teacher that let me into a photojournalism class that was already full (the school admins denied my schedule transfer after we had moved to the 'correct' side of the street (literally) and into an upper middle class school district). This teacher simply allowed me to be socially-weird-awkward-me and set a basic structure to thrive in (eventually winning state and national awards with the school newspaper). By giving me (and others) a chance to show we belonged and could compete helped build my self-esteem after it had been consistently torn down at home.

Didn't know it then, and doubt that teacher has any idea, but it changed the course of my life. I think I'm more a practical realist or even a cynic about life and society than I am optimistic - still, that experience reminds me to try and build others up and pay that empowerment forward

The data is conclusive on Single Parent vs. Two Parent and it's not even close.

The 'moralizing' is from those who want to equivocate.

This is also from deep life experience myself, with close family and colleagues.

In everything but the best scenarios: 'Everything Is Hard' in a single family household, whereas things 'Can Be Hard' in regular family scenarios.

I think a 'single mentor' can make a big difference, but nowhere near most of the other things put together.

And FYI I don't think parents provide very good 'professional mentorship' for the most part. They're there for other reasons.

i.e. if I found out that a mom was coming to pick up her kids laundry and leave some meals because 'Uni Exams' ... I will be $1000 immediately that kid will do well without knowing a single other thing about that family or situation. Not a guarantee of anything, but an easy bet.

> if I found out that a mom was coming to pick up her kids laundry and leave some meals because 'Uni Exams' ... I will be $1000 immediately that kid will do well without knowing a single other thing about that family or situation. Not a guarantee of anything, but an easy bet.

Narrow bet, yes. But I'd put $100 on them having high risk of entitlement issues and being an overweight office stinker who is a loner, because they never learned to wash, cook and manage their time. Not certain, but this is a pattern with risks: kids need to learn self reliance in the ordinary.

> I will be[t] $1000 immediately that kid will do well without knowing a single other thing about that family or situation.

I'd take the other side of that bet; in my experience, a parent who still feels the need to take on their adult child's domestic labor likely hasn't prepared them well for independence in other respects, such as managing their own education well enough to get good grades in university classes.

Helping a kid through exams is not 'doing their domestic labour' for god sakes.

It actually very practically is. Also, doing your laundry is not the kind of work nor time investment that will make you fail exams.

The Hacker News ethos is "independence for independence sake" and receiving any kind of help (helping with laundry during exam = domestic "labour", lol) is a sign of moral failing.

Eh, it's a bit culturally dependent.

My native culture prizes gender equality and self-reliance; has washer-dryers in every home; and doesn't care about wrinkled clothes. If a grown man from my culture needed help with his laundry, it's probably because his life's a shambles - if you're struggling with depression or something, that ain't a good sign for your exam success.

On the other hand, someone from a more patriarchal culture; where white goods aren't in everyone's reach; and they like clothes that need to be carefully ironed? That might just indicate they have the support of their very traditional parents.

These responses are getting quixotic.

Nobodies 'native culture' prizes 'equality' to that extent, if you're from a culture we're all familiar with I'd fathom you're projecting pretty hard.

In some places in the world, there are some 'modern ideals' around those types of things, but it's more 'ideology' than 'culture'.

Students are not running around forlorn about not having their 'pressed khakis and dinner shirts needing pressing'. God forbid. The Mother who pops in with Rizotto & Scnitzel for their kid and her roommates, grabs their laundry, making sure they have their train ticket to 'Auntie Lucy and Uncle Chuck's Wedding' (because the date was changed!), gossips about their cousin who just got into Flight School in the Air Force. That's 'conscientious parenting' and extremely hard to do as a single parent at that level. 20-year-olds are barely adults, arguably, transitioning to adulthood.

¯\_(ツ)_/¯ Maybe it's different in your country, or things have changed since I was in college.

In my experience teenagers are eager to establish their own identity, independent of their parents - to the point of being embarrassed, at some ages, to even be seen with their parents. Until they're grown enough that their relationship is more like one of equals. Most people over the age of 17 would be embarrassed if someone said they were merely transitioning to adulthood.

Leaving home means doing your own cooking, cleaning and laundry, and paying your own bills - in exchange for freedoms like exploring your sexuality; experimenting with drink and drugs; and occasionally staying in bed until noon.

Granted, some students choose a school close to home and some even keep living with their parents - but it's far more common to choose a school 2+ hours away from home. Having a parent drive two four-hour round trips to collect and return some laundry, to save their child 15 minutes loading and unloading the laundry machine would be very unusual.

I second that. Major red flag. Exams can never be so bad as you can't do the laundry. I would have been insulted ... But maybe it's a cultural difference.

>> The data is conclusive on Single Parent vs. Two Parent and it's not even close.

Not sure where single parents come into this? I have no strong opinion on it one way or another. I was referring to the the argument for having both biological parents in the house, that it doesn't automatically mean the home environment is healthy. It doesn't mean that having both biological parents in the home automatically equals support for the child. That is what is lost on that argument, that the actual physical and mental well being and support of the child is not automatically granted just because it's traditional nuclear family home.

There are other family structures that can more than provide for the physical, monetary, and mental health of the child. Coming from a traditional (US) Southern up-bring, the moralizing I heard is how all the social problems can easily be solved if the parents would just "work out" their problems. At that time, and still in places today, it was code for the wife to shut up and obey her husband - and if he beats her, what did she do to upset him? if he sexually assaults her, wait, just kidding, he cant because providing sex was her on-demand-duty. Is he beating, berating or sexually abusing the children? No one will ever know because if it's happening, the wife is socially blamed (if it leaks out) for failing her duties and no-one dares talk about it. Mostly the same for the wife treating a child in this way, except this time the blame and responsibility is rightfully hers, if it ever gets out. Having women work outside of the house really messed up this racket, thats a lot of self-serving control to lose for those that have lost it, or the promise of it, and the moralizing I hear because of it got louder. My point being, obviously our experiences of childhood and family are all different - however, this is the lens I, and many others, view through

> Didn't know it then, and doubt that teacher has any idea, but it changed the course of my life.

Reach out to him and let him know. It's these kinds of feedback that can really, really make a person's day, and it's what every engaged teacher dreams of/works for.

I had tried over the years and even went back to the school, when I visited the city a number of years after. It was a large school and turn over was common. Not to date myself, but this was decades ago - they would be near or in their 90's and a very common name.

Maybe it worked out better this way, it keeps me honest - like the lack of closure keeps me from storing it away and forgetting the lesson in it.

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