Hacker News Reader

Comment by dymk | Hacker News Reader

Depends on where you want to buy. SF? Probably not going to happen. Almost anywhere else? Houses are plenty affordable.

If you grew up somewhere cheap, you probably encountered the attitude that people moving to big cities and expensive states were insane because of the housing prices (and/or taxes and general living expenses). Actual concern over the wellbeing of friends and relatives who did so. For a large segment of people living cheap places, moving to California (as in, the whole state) New York (ditto, except maybe the extremely rural and also not-popular-for-vacations bits), several entire New England states, most big cities unless you're actually living way outside them, et c., was seen as simply impossible. Not in the cards. Cannot be done without ruining your finances. You don't buy somewhere expensive until you retire, and then it's probably in Florida or the Carolinas. On a local lake if you're not rich enough for those.

From that perspective, nothing's changed except that some people living in those expensive places are starting to realize the same thing, and the people experiencing that are a bit higher up the economic ladder than before. Welcome to the lower classes, folks. Don't worry, you've got plenty of company.

I'm not in SF. The last listing I looked at was 800 sq ft, run down, literally "as-is" property: $500k valuation from Zillow (it's listed for less … but not by much). That's about $2500/mo, in mortgage alone.

Decent properties, in suburban areas, at ~$1M.

Ir rural areas, yeah, they're cheaper … and salary would get "adjusted" the moment I try that.

Jesus where do you live? I moved from San Diego to Raleigh, didn't get a pay adjustment and even that place wouldn't be anywhere near that cost here.

I'm looking at moving to a significantly nicer [edit: than where I am now, that is], coastal region with excellent schools and within occasional-but-not-daily commute distance of two top-tier US cities, including by rail (some of you may be be able to guess the area, at this point), and the housing prices (4-bedroom with some land, even) are surprisingly affordable. Nothing like that, certainly. Houses within daily commute range of one (but not both) of those cities can be had for way under that, too, some miles away from where I'm looking, especially if you'll accept good-but-not-excellent schools.

I guess if you're somewhere insanely expensive and won't go somewhere that's not, then... you're gonna pay a lot for housing. Go figure. "Here's the 97% of the country that's not like that, just throw a dart at a US map and you'll probably hit a place with much cheaper housing"—"No, I won't, because reasons"—"Uh, OK then, kinda sounds like a choice, good luck"

This is what I mean when I say "kicked out." You're forced to move away from everything and everyone you know.

Where

The train comment makes me guess somewhere on the mid-Atlantic east coast: DC, Baltimore, Philadelphia or NYC are all fairly close together, and a train ride from NYC to DC I think is only ~3 hours

Everyone sells 30 years of their future for a house, so you’re competing with that. On top of that, when prices rise people can leapfrog into more expensive houses, and you’re competing with that. Finally there’s a lot of corporate and private investing money in single family housing. It’s fucked up. But many do predict a decline or even crash soon.

Here's a decent 3-bedroom single family house in suburban Cleveland for $395K.

https://apps.realtor.com/mUAZ/313q9jxa

That's just one example but you can find thousands of similar listings all over the country. Outside of high-cost coastal areas, housing is still fairly affordable in most of the country.

That’s not the suburbs.

I think that's their "point", in that it's an urban home that's "affordable". I.e., if I only chose a city that wasn't part of one of the megalopolises, I wouldn't have problems.

I guess it depends how you define "suburbs", but it's outside the core downtown area. If your prefer a house further out in the suburbs or exurbs then there are plenty of options to pick from.

Anyway, the point is that people on HN who have relatively high incomes and job skills, and still complain about lack of affordable housing are mostly just being picky about location. There are options available but it might mean living in a area with shitty weather or not being able to walk to trendy restaurants or among neighbors who don't share your political views. The real housing crisis is hitting people with much lower incomes who are being squeezed out.

I am from Cleveland, that is considered a very nice area these days including the proximity to Steelyard Commons, bars, West Side Market, St Ignatius HS etc

And, as stated, I would take a "CoL adjustment" by moving there.

That particular property falls pretty squarely in the "exception proves the rule" territory for me; it's a 135 y/o dwelling, so I expect you'll be paying more than the immediate price tag. Like too many listings, it doesn't come w/ a floorplan, and with what photos it gives I'm a bit suss on the 3bd/3ba (piecing together the photos, I think we've converted a second story apt.'s LR into a BR?). It's certainly seen a remodel (although … IDK about the taste of the remodel. But let's say taste is unimportant!) No driveway. The backyard is … well it needs work. You're still batting $2k/mo in Cleveland.

I'd almost hazard a guess that my CoL adjust would be >$500/mo, but I don't get to know these things, being an employee.

There are a few intangibles in my situation that make "move to Cleveland" a "it's not going to happen".

There's a point where one needs to step back and ask oneself, if that's what's affordable on SWE's salary, what's affordable on a baker's salary?

100% also, why do you need to buy a house in the first place?

Because my mother taught me that 100% of my value as a person is being a home owner because that's the only thing that matters. Not even a condo will do.

/s but only sort of

Mine literally told me every day you shouldn't have kids unless you own a house.

Reply on news.ycombinator.com