I turned down $500k, pissed off my investors, and shut down my startup (2016)
disruptingjapan.com
disruptingjapan.com
Both startup founders and investors alike seem to forget this (for obvious reasons) so it is good to put this on your toilet wall so you see it often.
Sometimes I try to imagine how the alternative would be in a planned economy for software.
On one hand, it would be very slow and very inefficient.
But on the other hand, venture capitalism also has its flaws. Sometimes it sounds like there is an "excess efficiency" that leads to burnout and non-sense, where you constantly need to quote-unquote "innovate".
In my view there is a limit about innovation, you can't always "disrupt" over and over and over again.
If I get paid that much money, I'm going to work on my own terms, there is no way somebody will compromise my health like that.
On my own company, when single, and living in my one room apartment? Absolutely.
With a family, children, with tons of responsibilities and in someone elses employ? Not on your life.
We have been conditioned to call things like this a waste of time but it doesnt mean it is. Not for everyone. Capitalism would have us believe we must constantly be delivering value that is defined by external standards but that is a dangerous game.
4000 Weeks is a pretty good book with more on this topic.
> If you have a family, then there's no way you have time for 70hr weeks
The argument is _not_
> If you do not have a family, then you _do_ have time for 70hr weeks
I don’t think you should overwork yourself cuz you don’t have kids. Do what you want with your life.
I love working (activity) -- coding is a hobby I long ago made the mistake of monetising haha.
My stuff? I'll spend a weekend chasing a dead end without a second thought.
General sort of cog in the machine day to day work? You're paying me to be a bit bored a lot of the time. Not a complaint or anything, just the routine stuff that can't be automated yet.
Fun comes from learning new things, money comes from being paid for what you already learned.
Of course this is just me, if everyone was like me the world would suck. Absolutely no judgement if you get your fun outside of an IDE!
E: bit of context I'm currently single and have no dependents, I would imagine (hope) my priorities would change if that changed
Working for somebody else, where I have little stake in the company? I won't just put in the bare minimum to not get fired, but I also won't work absurd hours, especially on a salary.
My own stuff? I'm ready for the 40 (job) + 60 (my own projects) work week!
For reference, I'm very young and no where close to having a family.
Since you said you're very young I assume you're still at school/university and haven't had a tech job yet.
This doesn't work. Time is not the biggest factor, energy and focus are. You can only put in 40hrs and be extremely drained.
It's very unlikely you're going to be able to perform well at work and then be productive for another 60hrs on personal projects, especially not at your first job when you're learning a very large amount of new stuff.
Even just 60hrs of personal projects is probably way too much time relative to energy and focus (Your energy and focus will likely be drained before the 60hr mark).
I see it in smaller business. I once got a phone call from my then boss, a sort of VC, who was clearly drunk, who could not make my meeting because he was doing BD. They worked collosal hours on this, in the corporate entertainment suites of the local sporting venues, in the city bars etc. Even lunch was a work activity for them.
Nobody is saying single people have "nothing better to do". Just that they very often have more flexibility with what they can reasonably choose to do.
If you’re around 20 maybe. Before you’ve already developed a hair-trigger on chronic disorders.
Speak for yourself. I have hobbies, a workout routine, friends to meet up with, family members to visit, and beauty sleep to catch. If you're working 70h a week you're sacrificing most if not all of those things.
You can fit working out in there (~30-60 min a day, plus travel time if you don't have your own equipment) if you're willing to burn the candle at both ends like that. At that point you will have committed the overwhelming majority of your time, and if you try to add anything else to your life, any kind of unexpected outing or emergency, or even just waking up one day and not feeling up for it, will have to come directly out of the time you've budgeted for your work and health.
> On one hand, it would be very slow and very inefficient.
Why do you say that? Large, "boring" sectors of the economy would probably work just fine being algorithmically steered.
Anyways, more concretely: huge vertically integrated megacorporations behave much like centrally planned economies, and they seek to be doing just finem
Computing and software was researched and invented in a planned manner (NASA etc).
Maybe you can't "expand" and "generalize" software in a planned economy, if you want everything to be made with software. The article talks about about 80 competitors, so it can easily be said something should be planned.
I can think of several. The grandiose ones: your kid has cancer, the kind that might be fixable, but there is no treatment, and you have to design one. You have a viable theory for nuclear fusion or carbon sequestration and need to get funding for and then perform the experiment. There is a verified meteor/comet strike and there's some hope of saving people underground, but it needs to be built and stocked.
In reality, you don't need grandiosity. This life is 'acceptable' to a lot of people, especially small business owners, the store owner/operator, or car mechanic, who effectively lives at their store. For others there is "paying your dues", doctors doing a residency, grad students doing slave labor on something only tangentially related to their degree. For others, like farmers, they work like this for some part of the year, every year.
if someone is passionate about their job, I'm not sure they're being well paid, or they also have very rare skills, so it's an exception, not a rule.
also I live in a country with good healthcare.
For better or worse, devotion to a cause is a proven motivator of human action.
As for alternatives in the business world, we'd need some economic system that wasn't analogous to warfare in which one firm outcompetes all others to take most of the winnings. If you want a lesson from the US losing in Afghanistan, and arguably losing in Iraq, in spite of being able to drive its labor force to such extreme exertion, consider that a massive advantage of the insurgency was their ability to mobilize a part-time gig-based workforce that mostly worked from home. But which lesson does business learn from that? Allow work from home? Or getting part-time contractors with no benefits to kill themselves and sacrifice children for you?
CEO = Chief Enslaved Officer.
Enslaved to your investor obviously.
Enslaved to your customers.
And even enslaved to your employees. This one may need some elaboration — the CEO constantly needs to manage their motivation through ups and downs and ensure they are productive, and be responsive to them.
CEO = Cheap, Enslaved Officer.
For obvious reasons — CEOs intentionally take very little if any pay.
Anyone with not-too-distant relatives that were _owned_ by wealthy old white dudes may find the equating of CEOs with slavery an "I have no time for this person" level offense.
I understand why the topic at large is a sensitive one, and more for some than others. That doesn't mean I'll be overly concerned with someone who responds to such an analogy with some variation of "I have no time for you".
The problem with a CEO calling themselves a slave is that it pretends that someone who has made an active choice to start a company is a victim. As this article shows, a CEO can choose to walk away from their company without fear of violence or starvation. If I meet a CEO who labels themselves enslaved, that tells me they are unwilling to recognize their responsibility for their own choices. That mindset makes them unfit to hold the power of the leadership position they aspire to.
Wage slavery obviously is nothing like the others, but in the context of applying to a CEO, and given the frequency that it comes up (especially with the recurring universal basic income discussions), I think it is a much closer analogy that jumping straight back to the time before the american civil war.
Sure, if Zuckerberg jokingly called himself “chief enslaved officer” that’d be a little tone deaf given his power and privilege, but the founder of some pre-pmf startup working 10hr days 7 days a week jokingly commenting that is just a small way to soothe the pain. Obviously they aren’t a slave in any real sense (no one in America currently is), it’s a comment on the real sacrifices and effort and stress of the job.
> no one in America currently is
Sadly, this is false. If I knew more about the current state of human trafficking, I’d provide some links.
We’re all on someone’s dollar and beholden to them so by the “chief enslaved officer” logic we’re all slaves which really cheapens and nearly erases a very real and very recent thing.
Using a trauma that you haven't experienced as a point of reference can also be seen as minimizing that trauma. Especially if you're going for a purposefully extreme juxtaposition like "being at the very top of a business with control over other people's labor and livelihoods is just like being a slave."
Because it's nothing like that at all to someone with deeper experience with the subject, and is as false to them as other shocking juxtapositions like "stubbing your toe is like having your entire family murdered in the holocaust (because they both hurt!)" or "needing to have a license to operate a car is like being gangraped (because you don't want either!)." Those kinds of analogies can be interpreted as purposefully trivializing and mocking that trauma, because there are quite a few people out there who really enjoy doing that sort of thing.
So when language is used like that, people who are hurt by the reference have to decide whether the speaker is simply ignorant of how it's going to land or if they are doing it on purpose. Some of them are going to chuck Hanlon's razor out the window and assume it's done on purpose as part of some sort of power game or sadism.
- recent historical labor slavery (predominantly but not exclusively race based, US focus)
- modern labor slavery (less common in the US than other parts of the world)
- sex slavery (with a debate over when sex work counts)
- "wage slavery": being in a position where you must work to sustain yourself, without an expectation of receiving compensation based on the value you create
Wage slavery is not an uncommon phrase, and you see it bandied about on HN semi-regularly, especially whenever the topic of universal basic income comes up.
I would peg wage slavery as the closest context for analogy, though it's not perfect; in this case, the startup CEO is working predominantly for equity in the hopes that the equity will eventually be worth more than if they had taken a standard salary.
They have the most knowledge of anyone and are the ultimate decision maker about the future of the venture. The CEO gets to make the choice: they can walk away any time, they can quit and they can shut things down.
If they don't want to walk away, they get the strongest voice in decisions about what paths to take. They have all the knowledge they need about the venture on which to base those choices. They have the full picture, access to all the financial knowledge, the conversations with the investors, the data from the customers - everything.
No one else in the venture has that. Even if others have the knowledge (in the case where the CEO operates with a rare level of extreme transparency) - they don't have the choices.
That is not enslavement.
With power, naturally, comes a lot of responsibility and that can feel heavy. Especially if you are ethical. But that is not enslavement.
When you are enslaved, you have zero power.
>With power, naturally, comes a lot of responsibility and that can feel heavy. *Especially if you are ethical*. But that is not enslavement.
What about the workers actually building the product, making far less, and probably putting in more time. Why is the issue of their valuable time compared to money almost never discussed.
We all only have one life and ot should be able to be enjoyed. Why do we always forget the pursuit of happiness, except as it applies to the upper class.
I'm surprised (and delighted) to see this back on Hacker News. I'm happy that people find value in the article, and the process writing it forced me to put my thoughts together and helped get me through an emotionally difficult time.
To address a few questions from the comments.
1) A common opinion is that I gave up too quickly, that I was just burned out, or taking the money would have let me figure things out later. This was simply not the case. An experienced mountaineer knows if a mountain is climbable with the team, gear, and weather he has. This one was not.
2) I would have been 100% fine with the team and investors going ahead without me, but AFAIK, neither side ever discussed it.
3) We were absolutely not viewing contract information, and would not have been able to do so even if we wanted to. We anonymously logged when functions were called without storing user or input data of any kind.
4) Six years later, I'm doing well. The Disrupting Japan podcast is going strong. I took a senior role in corporate VC for a while, and ended up at Google.
I was overwhelmed by the attention and positive response I got from this article. The asymmetry of value of money and time was one of my main learnings, and I'm glad to see it resonates with so many other founders.
Or to take up repeatedly at 5am and work 12+ hours a day on something that gains traction slowly.
I’ve been part of a fun project backed by good people and then had new tech eat our lunch. We still spent long hours trying to find value somewhere. That was less fun but OK, not a waste.
I have been part of a slow traction project when the first great dot-com crash happened and too many contracts got cancelled. That was the worst time of my professional life but not a waste.
I have spent time on very promising tech in a field ripe for either a good living providing something needed in service deserts, or an exit. The founder found every excuse not to launch, to keep versioning pre-launch. That neverlaunch project was a waste of a year that I’ll never get back.
Learning when to bail is a true skill. Not to quit just because it is messy or inconvenient, but when it is actually harmful.
Did you ever get around to writing that article? It sounds interesting
I have not, but you know, I got that request a lot back in 2016 too, so it sounds like i really should write that article.
I promise I will get it written this year.
Who knows, it might even end up here on HN.
> Almost no SMB views contract management as an urgent problem.
And I think it probably is, then IMO you made the right decision. I don’t know the space very well, but my gut feel would be SMBs don’t have real CLM needs like Enterprises do, they mostly just need something like DocuSign. Taking the money and pivoting might have worked, but I agree, it’s a massive risk in terms of your time and your team’s jobs.
Also, if the CLM product targets a Salesforce integration, sounds like it’s more of an Enterprise than SMB product? While their core e-signature product targets both SMBs and Enterprise.
I know it is childish, but I always enjoy this difference between US and British English.
In British English when someone is annoyed they may be described as 'pissed off'. Describing someone as being 'pissed' means they are drunk! These US articles paint such vivid surrealism in my mind. In this case I love the idea of all of the investors being permanently inebriated.
There is a lovely part of the 'special relationship' where the US doesnt care what the UK thinks of them, and therefore the UK has great fun at their expense. I suppose that is a win win situation? The US projects an image of being the leader of so many things, and the rest of the world jokes about how arrogant this is.
I am comforted by reports of US children talking about pavements, dustbins and shopping centres thanks to Peppa Pig.
I am sorry it didn't make it, but, as the author points out:
> Human nature sucks.
Yup. I have to design for human nature, and it can be immensely frustrating. I can tell you that this scar <pulls up shirt> was from when I neglected to plan for users misinterpreting an icon button, and this scar <rolls up sleeve> was from when I thought that a verbose help screen would help users understand a somewhat abstract concept, but this scar <drops pants> was from when I assumed that users would cut me slack, because I'm such a nice guy, and was doing this from the goodness of my heart.
This is the main reason that I'm glad he pulled the plug:
> and the team ready to quit their day jobs
Me too. I'm happy to report we all ended up on good terms with each other once all the drama settled down.
However, if you do something full time the inspiration to implement your wish can appear. Waiting to be blessed by inspiration probably won't lead to a solution.
This affects many engineers including myself. In many cases over working is not necessary and there are diminishing returns, possibly even less overall net returns if you burn out or become too sleep deprived and stressed to function efficiently the following days. In this case he quit, which is an example of this.
As engineers we have to learn how to manage expectations and disconnect from work. As engineering leaders we need to foster a culture of maintaining good work life balance. As founder and CEO, he's in the best possible position to do this. Especially in this case where there is no external deadline.
The very early stages of a startup (and even later stages) usually require this much effort because you honestly don't have enough money to last you the "right" amount of time you need - and therefore you need to put in more time.
As you said - this isn't sustainable long-term - but, especially in the early stages, you may not have a "long-term" in that venture if you're not able to put these hours in.
Not to say it's impossible to find a great work-life balance for an early stage startup - but it's highly unlikely.
“This article was first published in Medium and appeared in VentureBeat & Business Insider”
I get the syndication and the other outlets using this content at the time it was written (2016). There’s just something very dishonest about the slapping the words on a page with some stock images 6 years later though.
I don’t really have a point - maybe it would be better to link to the original medium (I know) post though?
https://medium.com/startup-lesson-learned/why-i-turned-down-...
Edit: on the other hand the article itself is very honest. And it’s an interesting question.
I first published in on my podcast site and then on Medium and LinkedIn a few days later.
https://www.disruptingjapan.com/turned-500k-pissed-off-inves...
It seems that far more people will click on a Medium or LinkedIn link rather than a personal blog. Then it was picked up by Venture Beat, Business Insider and a dozen other publications and it was off to the races.
I received my 15 minutes of internet fame and over 1,000 emails about the article.
Altfront: https://scribe.rip/startup-lesson-learned/why-i-turned-down-...
> Almost no SMB views contract management as an urgent problem.
If you are a solving a problem your target market doesn’t care about, you’re not going to get adoption. This isn’t a product problem or a top-down vs bottom-up problem.
The article said just what you said; my point is that another way to explain those dynamics is that you can’t sell software to SMBs if they don’t urgently need it. That’s because that logic about top-down sales is true regardless of what you’re selling. And that’s why the foreknowledge that SMBs don’t urgently need to solve a contract management problem is a huge red flag, ideally before you’ve written a line of code.
I would have definitely took the 500k.
Needing sales doesn't mean the business is to throw away, it just means you need way more money than you were thinking.
Probably 500k wasn't enough to execute the scale the founder imagined, but it could have been a good intermediate step to raise more money later on.
You are of course free to disagree and you may be right that there was a path there or they could have pivoted to do something totally different. What the author was trying to convey and maybe you missed is that they weren’t interested in spending another year exploring trying to find a totally different viable business strategy.
But the whole matter could have been avoided if you were solving a problem you actually cared about. Then there would have been no doubt if you should or should not invest another year of your time.
If I'm solving a problem I personally care about, then I will also be personally willing to put in vastly more effort into learning and getting up to speed with the solution than the vast majority of my target customers will.
As the OP said, you need something that will give relatively quick return on investment of effort. If it's going to require a larger up-front investment, then you have to really, really care about the improvement it's providing in order to put in that effort.
I have innumerable half-baked solutions to various problems I care about, and by "half-baked" I mean they only work in specific situations and require massaging the inputs into a form that the solutions will accept. And that's fine for me; after all, I cared enough to implement the fancy solution in the first place. But I don't expect anyone else to use it unless I clean it up and package it nicely.
You also have a fiduciary responsibility to the investor and a responsibility to the team members who worked equally as hard.
It sounds like there were others, but they had a good fallback/continue without ContractBeast position.
It sucks for them, because effort invested on the side implies that it must have been quite loaded emotionally, but right before turning the others full time seems like the least bad time for giving up.
Their strategy critically depended on staying in the SMB market, not the enterprise market. And it was apparent that their product wasn't solving a major, urgent customer problem.
The last thing you want to do is to pour your life into a startup that solves a non-problem. If you're not solving an urgent problem, you won't be able to reliably close sales.
You do the real hard work, they provide numbers in a computer database (and often kick you out once this hard work is done).
I’m assuming they had a better way of analysis than actually reading contracts since most vendor procurement processes I’ve seen require attestation of data privacy..
>> Now, talking with customers about features is tricky. Often you receive solid and useful ideas. Occasionally a customer will provide an insight that will change the way you look at your product. But most of the time, customers don’t really want the features they are asking for. At least not very badly.
This a thoughtful, well-rounded and obviously experienced view, but ultimately it shades toward being very pessimistic about the competence of the end-user.
>>When users are unhappy but can’t explain exactly why, they often express that dissatisfaction as a series of tangential, trivial feature requests.
Clearly, the writer had the self-reflection to realize that the product wasn't working, and for that should be applauded. On the other hand, maybe there's something a little intentionally self-blinding about the above statement. Assuming that people are just putting out meaningless feature requests because they'll never use the software anyway is, to say the least, taking things from a very negative starting point of view. Maybe something larger was actually missed in the "tangential, trivial feature requests" which if compiled would have pointed to a fixable underlying problem if one were take them seriously as a constellation of indicators pointing to a root issue.
This is speculative:
>>These aren’t necessarily bad ideas, but they had nothing to do with why they were not using ContractBeast more extensively.
This is indicative of burnout, where you stop seeing the value (for other reasons which are harder to quantify):
>>In any event, I was overwhelmingly getting these kinds of tangential, trivial feature requests.
And this is resignation:
>>It didn’t provide a significant immediate benefit. I was fighting human nature and losing.
If I'd been sitting around that office, I might have suggested adding a human consultant to the loop for every new client from onboarding to full use -- not a virtual pop-up box, but someone they could call on the phone. And not to sell anything but to suggest uses and help implement the changes to the customer's business ops that they would then come to rely on. Mid-sized businesses don't make drastic changes overnight but that's also a guarantee of lock-in if you can convince them to rely on your product. So you'd give each one a sort of a "guardian beast angel" if you like, who was available at all hours. The sole purpose of the employee would be to track a few dozen customers and their user experience, really understand how this worked in their business models, and find ways to improve their use of the software while filtering back some feature requests and bugs. And thus get the customers to realize the full benefits of the software, without any attempt to sell them anything. This kind of thing would be a loss leader, it would be money out of pocket, but it would be far more cost effective than any kind of advertising, and it would establish trust and good word of mouth in addition to providing a customer base that was now dependent on you. Also, it wouldn't have involved actually writing any new features if you felt that the software was already sufficient to the tasks most users would require, if they knew how to use it properly. It would also give you runway to roll out new features on your own timetable without constantly trying to please an audience, since the customer-facing "beasts" would provide workarounds for niche use cases and reassure them personally that improvements were in the pipeline.
As a (hopefully competent enough) end-user, I can confirm how for some reasons the process of accepting (or refusing if it is the case) feedback or suggestions is often alien to many developers/programmers.
I don't know if this is due to them being too busy with other (possibly more important) things, if there is some sort of arrogance involved (i.e. the way the program is written is already perfect) or if there is some other reason, but surely to try and convince some software makers (I am talking about specific, "narrow", business software) that "feature x" is not needed or implemented in such a way that makes working with the program much slower or possibly making it more prone to errors is often a lost battle.
A founder has a team (investors are part of that team) that trusts each other to have incentives towards having the startup make it big.
Ditching the team and investors like that is extremely distasteful and shows that the founder does not have the qualities to be a leader.
The founder didn’t do the right thing, he did the selfish thing by throwing his employees under the bus.
How is leaving them in their more secure day jobs rather than binding then to a likely failed company throwing anyone under the bus?
This founder did the smart thing, and probably did what was best for everyone involved.
But I'm curious as to how this might effect investors generally. I assume it could make them look bad, and cause issues with the fund LPs?
I.e. you announced an investment, did a capital call and then suddenly the money gets returned. LPs might get annoyed that money is now sitting in the fund accounts collecting interest? or I guess it just makes the fund look bad generally?
I think what you mean to say is, it's an extremely terrifying situation for an investor.
By the end of the article, I wonder whether there weren't actually fixable problems. I was left wondering whether I would have made the same decision. However, it's essential we all have the freedom and agency to choose how to live our lives
This is the choice the author made, and it's blatantly obvious that the decision needs to be respected.
You, or I, have no say in the matter.
I believe in freedom to choose.