We got Linux on the iPhone, iPad and other idevices
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It taught me to create custom ramdisks and kernels for iDevices, which eventually landed me my first job as a digital forensics SWE.
Flutter doesn't even support pasting images at all (so things like messaging apps can't support pasting images). I get an impression that Google/Android want copy-paste to disappear. My favourite conspiracy theory on this is that it's so people will have to use the "share" sheet, which shares links with tracking/analytics (rather than pasting a raw image which cannot be tracked).
The 17-year-old iPod Video cranking out tunes on my desk right now has a really good version of Tetris on it, and one of the best ports of Ms. Pac-Man ever. Once you get used to navigating the maze with the wheel, it's a great game.
Poor iOS APIs mean developers can't create good kiosk apps to do simple things like control system settings, lock screen and so many more things that I resorted to an Android tablet.
This is finally going to make it possible and turn junk into gold.
Hearing many people say this. I may write it up from a e-waste POV as a big win for the environment.
I am also hopeful, but last week when I checked the compatibility matrix, my 3rd generation A5 iPad was "wayyy" too old and not supported. Only A7 chips or newer, iirc.
I did some reasons some months back and many features just aren't possible in iOS.
If the day to day experience of the device is still bad I'm not going to be carrying one on me. It gets relegated to yet another thing I can tinker with on the weekend, just like my pinebook pro.
Of course if all you care about is "it boots" then having a binary blob lying around and doing god knows what with your entire computing is a "viable" option.
Not so long ago hardware vendors sold hardware and provided all schematics along... because that's what hardware manufacturers are for?! Nowadays they're more like a service provider trying to lock you into weird things and it's certainly not for the benefit of us users and maintainers. I think the issue was explained at length in this blog post called "Ok lenovo we need to talk":
https://www.haiku-os.org/blog/mmu_man/2021-10-04_ok_lenovo_w...
"EU Planning to Force Apple to Give Developers Access to All Hardware and Software Features" : https://www.macrumors.com/2022/05/20/eu-plans-to-force-apple...
Everyone who wants to use the pure apple system can, everyone who wants to tinker can. Perfect world.
There is no perfect world for all. There could be a perfect world for each one. That is a difference. And yours may not be mine.
Just ask someone to compete with apple and get to the same level. Not killing one perfect world for many (most likely not really reader here it seemed) without creating a better tomorrow.
If you just think of tinker, before you know it china will take over say … or Russia … and we will have cheap but et-phone-home before you have a choice. Btw apple is dead. Cry your beloved apple then? No.
Ps. Just in case of doubt I hack my iphone and iPads if I can to do other things. It is my old device that is ignored … but not for all.
I'm afraid Apple will frustrate the process though; Like, if you turn off "SIP" on iOS, they will disable Apple Pay, everything related to DRM videos (including Netflix, etc), DRM music (including Spotify, etc.), all App Store purchases, and so on.
In other words, iOS becomes nearly unusable.
Now, Apple devices are all manufactured in China so the relevant security services probably have access to all the schematics they need. Oh wait they don't need any shenanigans Apple is fully cooperating with chinese government and that's why they're so present on the chinese market, woops.
Slightly off-topic from the question, but if you're looking for authoritarian governments you don't need to look so far away from home, see also CoIntelPro/Snowden/etc (assuming you're from the USA). I agree authoritarianism and social control are a scale and we could do worse than Global North countries like France or USA, but we still have a pretty bad record of human rights overall and that should not be dismissed.
Kind, not scale!
Just hope you know. Just wish you can feel it.
USA or western democratic is not heaven on earth. No. But there are hell on earth. And there is some basic human rights one should respect.
I'd have bought an android tabled years ago if I had found something that seriously competes with the iPad Pro 12" versions.
While they're not always the most practical, they can definitely encourage the hacker ethos in people who wonder what their devices can do that Apple might hide outside their walled garden.
I was only a teenager at the time as well, yet read the whole forum as a moderator. It was always fascinating to learn what new hacks people had made to let the iPod do everything it's capable of!
It's so nice to see Linux becoming available for the iPhone and iPad too.
Now the iPod is discontinued, I wish Apple would release its intellectual property (schematics, board views), so I can repair the old ones. The screen's a bit glitchy on my 1st gen, and I'm not sure how to fix it.
Blew my first gen up, well the battery at least, with the dual OS running together.
Good times
That’s a heck of a lot of APIs and daemons to shim. And then you’ve got to do all of that again if you want to run a newer version of iOS or Android.
I’ve been toying with ideas about similar approaches to get alternative/updated OS’s on iDevices — use stock kernel for all its device drivers for the proprietary HW, then put a VM on top running Linux or whatever. Sadly I don’t think I’ll have the time for such an ambitious project.
Would I be able to repurpose a device to do something useful I can’t do with iOS?
I want to use my old iphone 4 like this
On old devices that do not get updates your internet will stop working because of old browser, missing SSL certificates or old libraries. With Linux you might get an updated browser and you could use the device to browse things and you can do whatever your mind can imagine like maybe write a simple bash/python script to automate something.
I just retired an iPhone5 that we were using as a "house controller", streaming Pandora, home automation app, etc. I retired it not because the software stopped working but because the battery won't last more than 30 minutes off the charger, and I had an iPhone8 sitting around doing nothing.
IMO an iPhone with linux is going to be less of "do whatever your mind can imagine" and more of "spend countless time trying to hack random stuff into this unsupported platform".
Overall, I think it is cool achievement, but (to me), it feels more along the lines of solution looking for a problem than an actual truly useful thing.
>IMO an iPhone with linux is going to be less of "do whatever your mind can imagine" and more of "spend countless time trying to hack random stuff into this unsupported platform".
That does not generalize, sure you can't imagine what you could use a device like that and the freedom but others can. On my Linux desktop I have a one line script that will speak the time to me every 15 minutes (I need it) or I have a script that when I press a button it will OCR the screen and read it to me. Sure 99% of people will buy an app that might do a similar thing or just give up BUT people like me just think "would be cool if this would work and we do it".
And don't try to accuse me that it took me 12 hours to make a button to OCR my screen or other bullshit accusations, you can spend 5 minutes googling what package does a screen grab, what package does OCR from image, then you combine the 2 packages and done , 5 minutes and I had hours saved and sometimes made impossible stuff possible .
If the battery is absolutely crucial for your use case, quality replacements can still be had. The iPhone 5 battery, for instance, can be replaced for $30, with all needed tools included: https://www.ifixit.com/Store/iPhone/iPhone-5-Battery/IF118-0...
Anything that keeps perfectly usable devices like these out of landfills is a win in my book.
Sure, getting everything to work in a Linux port wouldn't be easy, but it does clearly show the value of such a thing.
Unfortunately, it seems this is not possible. https://www.ifixit.com/Answers/View/316746/Will+this+phone+t...
How about doing anything at all? I have an iPad 2 and an iPad mini sitting around that aren't useful at all. Just sitting there, collecting dust because I don't have the heart to chuck them.
It also used to be usable to load a weather page but turns out Safari doesn't know the certificate authority since it's such an old version. I guess such an old Safari is a walking security risk too.
It would be nice to be able to put Linux on it.
Hard to garner excitement from more general crowds running something on an iPhone 5 than it would be 10/11/12 etc. Less people to become interested in contributing.
It’s because the new devices haven’t been cracked open enough to work on yet. Tough to port Linux to a device with a locked bootloader. On the Android phone side even if the bootloader is unlocked it takes a lot of time and effort to write or port drivers.
Uh oh
Plus, it gives us backup plans, if Intel and AMD are hit by meteors.
And maybe they'll keep a couple iPads out of the landfills.
Doing hard things just for the sake of it
> A hacker is a person skilled in information technology who uses their technical knowledge to achieve a goal or overcome an obstacle, within a computerized system by non-standard means.
For me, the homebrew community is the reason why I have a career in technology in the first place. Breaking into things you're not supposed to is fun, and teaches a lot of practical knowledge.
That's a second life, and a valid thing - but I'm specifically talking about people wanting to use (e.g) an iPhone 6S (which will be discontinued soon).
Apple's hit something like 20% of their materials being from recycled products. This is a significant number and is much better than these things sitting around taking up space.
It's not just about freedom. Apple's walled-garden means you need in every company some "Apple guy" that owns an iPhone, iPad, etc to test Safari quirks. It really feels like an under-handed racket.
And linux on it would not run Apple apps, it would run Firefox or Chromium.
I wonder if iPhones and the like are any different on this front. Would you be able to build up a little serve farm of these things?
But, in my mind, you wouldn't try to build a server farm out of 5+ year old iPads. Instead, you'd continue to use them as consumption devices. Read books, browse web, ie all the things most iPads are doing when new.
That could be worked around by using the existing Linux featureset to manage hardware utilization. Especially if CPU/GPU use turns out to be the main issue (as opposed to, e.g. powering the display and radio components).
- without these projects, Apple will still continue doing whatever they are doing
- I don't expect many people to actually buy a new iThing because of these projects. Maybe they'd buy second hand iThings on which Linux is guaranteed to work. So Apple is not making new money with this
- Yes, they may save some devices from the landfill
- it might show Apple that yes, opening their devices a bit may actually increase their sales (but I would not count on it)
If I ever need a tablet and these projects work out without too many drawbacks, I'd actually probably consider getting a second hand iPad and install Linux on it. At this point I'd rather avoid both Android and iOS. I'd probably look into Pine64's (and other such manufacturers) devices first though.
I hope these projects will help save 2 old iPad 2 sleeping somewhere in my family. These otherwise perfectly capable devices are worthless now just because of one thing: the old version of Safari combined with the fact that Apple forbids browsers with alternative browser engines on these devices. That's so dumb.
And I'd probably prefer using existing devices than buying new ones if possible.
So, yes please, port Linux to the Apple devices!
I'm personally hoping Apple A5 devices are able to run Linux too as my iPad 2 is 11 years old, has a great battery and is in good condition but hasn't seen a software update in years.
Apple does not do planned obsolescence. iPhone 6S is going to be be supported for 8 years total. (It's not going to receive feature updates anymore, as iOS 16 won't support it, but it also means that iOS 15 gets another year of support)
Apple can be accused of an awful lot but their support story for older devices is better than any other phone or tablet manufacturer out there bar none.
https://www.npr.org/2020/11/18/936268845/apple-agrees-to-pay...
The upshot of that is that, yes, your phone got slower as it aged due to a software update. The battery life certainly didn’t suffer (if anything it would have improved it slightly). But it’s a little bit more nuanced than “planned obselescence”.
The mental gymnastics you people use is nuts. I guess this is part of Apples PR, is it? Deny history?
This goes to everyone: Give up. All of these companies suck, the only thing their money buys them is better marketing. It's not worth your time being their PR lackey for them.
In fact this morning I was reading a news article in Hacker News, which is a community where we have been working hard to make sure that Azure is growing in popularity and I was pleasantly surprised to see that we have made a lot of progress. In some sense that at least basically said that we’re neck to neck with Amazon when it comes to even elite developers as represented in that community.
The comment that started this chain has a tone that implies otherwise, which is why I asked. Seems like a nothing-burger to me.
Edit: "ton" -> "tone"
My wife and I both had iPhones when batterygate happened. Turns out her battery was degraded and mine was fine. She never did get her battery replaced, she was quite happy with the (reduced) performance she had. If it had been randomly rebooting it would have forced her to buy a new model. Instead she just waited until her next upgrade cycle and didn’t care, despite me telling her to get it replaced.
The battery is a consumable part. For my (second hand) iPhone 11 Pro Max it’s a £69 charge to get a new battery. After multiple years of use and two owners this isn’t unreasonable, not that it needs it of course (yet). I’ll still get years more of use out of this phone, and multiple more OS upgrades, all while other manufacturers pump and dump the next version of their handsets. We should be forcing every manufacturer to support handsets for 5 years minimum to save on e-waste.
Phone manufacturers should be forced to unlock their phones, release drivers and provide user replaceable batteries. Then you can say Apple isn't trying to force you to upgrade.
There’s a reason this whole thing was dubbed “batterygate” - it was to do with one thing - the battery.
If they had the users' interests in heart at all, they could have thrown a modal that explained that the batteries were dying, and asked if the user wanted the phone to be throttled to avoid incidents of sudden power loss. If Apple had done this, they would have immediately lost sales and had complaints about expensive and inconvenient battery replacement, so they chose not to. This was the result of nothing but greed.
There's quite a bit of it, isn't there? If your battery doesn't die, the software will cripple your phone. If you choose not to let it, you'll exepreince random reboots.
Its all a big elaborate plan to make you upgrade.
They're smart folks at Apple. They'll try something even more sneaky next time.
To me this is no different than when I pay for new parts for my car. Could I do it myself? Maybe, but I’ll happily pay someone who knows what they’re doing to do it properly. If a bush wears down is that planned obsolescence? Should I be outraged after 60,000 miles that I have to replace it?
I’m actually old enough to have owned phones with removable batteries. Guess how many times I changed a battery? 0. All the way from the 3210, t68i, P900, Note II and a bunch I’ve forgotten and I’ve never needed to change a battery. I’ve had maybe 4 Apple phones with non removable batteries and never needed to either.
https://www.techradar.com/uk/news/apples-iphone-battery-repl...
“In the US, for example, the battery replacement price went from $80 to $30.”
https://support.apple.com/iphone/repair/service/battery-powe...
Price now in the US: $69
I think I’ve come to the conclusion that you use the term “planned obsolescence” incorrectly.
If they made the batteries easily user replaceable, then you'd have a point. But they don't, and you couldn't disable that function so it falls under planned obsolescence.
That’s not a trait specific to iPhones though — the same thing will happen on most battery-powered devices these days. It’s just that someone decided to pick a fight with Apple about it, hence a lawsuit was born. There’s nothing remarkable about this case otherwise — it could have just as easily been any other phone manufacturer.
In this example, the mitigation Apple chose (and admittedly very badly communicated at the time) was to reduce the frequency with which these shutdowns happen by dropping peak performance a bit and reducing the peak power draw as a result. That action actually prolonged the device’s “usefulness” for its intended purpose as a phone and emergency device, even if it negatively affected auxiliary functions.
In any case, if the phone slows down a bit, you might think “okay, it may be time to replace the phone soon” and you like to use this as your excuse for it being planned obsolescence. What you’re conveniently ignoring is that if the phone shuts down at random, you are probably going to think “well, damn, I need to replace the phone _now_” because a non-technical person will not likely to draw the conclusion that the battery was at fault, they’re much more likely to believe there’s a much deeper and unfixable fault.
Finally, while the batteries indeed are not user-replaceable, they are still replaceable. Any Apple Store will do it for you (many even on a walk-in basis) and it’s not even expensive to have done. Many other third-party shops and service centres also have the capability to do the same.
Epic.
But if we’re going to be correct about things, it was phone speed that took a hit, not battery life.
This topic has become an amusing barometer for people who don't actually know anything about Apple products but love to knock on them.. there's plenty Apple does to get upset over, but this is always the one topic ignorant people bring up.
When the battery went bad on my 6s which was already several years old Apple replaced it for free. That's above and beyond the $30 program they started after their misshap handling the CPU throttling to prevent power loss on worn batteries.
- landfill
- install Linux
- something else?
Just because your old device doesn't support linux doesn't mean it's a brick. (Surely you were aware before you bought the device that it doesn't support linux).
- It can make a good pet or baby monitor (several apps that do this have extremely long support schedules because they know people will reuse old phones)
- If you’re going to dispose of it, return it to Apple for recycling rather than landfill
Recycling it would benefit the planet more right?
I don’t understand this desire to keep arbitrary old devices around. I only do it for as long as I need a device for testing (iOS dev).
They simply have no value past this.
iPhones are famous for being supported A LOT longer than almost any other phone. There are manufacturers which abandon you after the 2nd year, and if you buy a model near the end of its sale period, that can mean as little as 13-14 months on a brand new phone.
Some iPhones have been, are, or will be supported for 6, 7, even 8 years - which is ridiculously good in comparison, and often the reasons for dropping a model are quite clear (only 1G of RAM, would swap/OOMkill like crazy, or lack of a 64-bit CPU).
You could debate some of these reasons, you could debate when none are provided, you could argue about why a certain model had so little RAM to begin with, and of course there have been poorly handled issues like batterygate or certain iOS versions being brutally slow on old models (though it's been years since it last happened).... but frankly, this is an odd choice of a hill to die on.
It is good some people still find use for it. However, it is a device that would be perfectly capable of being used to surf the web… but Apple stopped releasing updates for Safari and forbids alternative browser engines for iOS. The web is essentially broken on it, and I'm not even talking about the security issues that it probably has as a consequence..
I'd say it is exactly the example of a device that is today unusable for many things its hardware could handle just fine for no good reason, and therefore obsolete for many people.
Obsolete because of its closed nature. This obsolescence was planned. Maybe not intentionally to make you buy a new one, but still bad and the consequences are the same. Many people probably replaced their iPad 2 with a new tablet for exactly this reason. Or bought a new tablet even if they still use their iPad 2 for the uses cases the iPad 2 is not capable of handling anymore. Apple should be legally forced to enable third parties to support this hardware.
Next time you consider buying closed hardware (not just Apple, and Android tablets are certainly problematic too), think about the iPad 2. Closed => Waste.
I'm hoping to get Postmarket running on it, if this Linux port works out.