Comment by SkyMarshal | Hacker News Reader

Comment by SkyMarshal | Hacker News Reader

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> but also had visual anchors.

I only see one visual anchor in the old one, the horizontal rule at the bottom separating Menu Bar. Everything else is just jumbled together.

The new one at least attempts visual anchors with gradient background boxes and by right-justifying all the controls.

I grant you the contrast ratio is worse and Apple should read Contrast Rebellion. And I personally don't care whether they use a checkbox or a switch, as long as its placement is convenient and aesthetic. I use Linux with Gnome 4 on my workstations, which uses switches for settings, and a MacBook laptop with checkboxes, and iPad with switches, and none of that makes any difference to me.

But otherwise I prefer the layout arrangement of the new one. Vertical and horizontal spacing are more orderly, left-justification of text and right-justification of controls improves UI consistency, and grouping within gradient boxes is more aesthetically calmer to my eye. Just my $0.02, to each their own.

https://contrastrebellion.com/

New UIs are less contrasty because old UIs were designed for low-quality TN LCD screens. Modern LCDs and OLEDs have better black points, so the UI gets grayer to make up for it.

There's a lot of accessibility options like "increase contrast" and "differentiate without shapes" if you don't like it though.

> There's a lot of accessibility options like "increase contrast" and "differentiate without shapes" if you don't like it though.

No. Just no. You make these things readable and accessible by default. You don't bury it in a setting somewhere.

I have 20/20 vision and I felt compelled to turn high contrast and button shapes on because the OS is so goddam unreadable.

Are you referring to macOS generally or Ventura specifically?

On calibrated monitors I haven't had an issue, but I could see it being a problem if the contrast is too high on a display. I've been using macOS since Snow Leopard but I have not tried Ventura yet.

If your general purpose OS requires a calibrated monitor for this to not be an issue, it means the OS design is a failure.

Sure, but what kind of display do you have?

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31687516

> left-justification of text and right-justification of controls improves UI consistency

True, but it also makes it harder to see which text corresponds to which switch, by separating them all with different distances. Before, there was no ambiguity about what each box did. Now, you have to scan the left column to find the item you want; and then either scan right to see the switch (which is error prone because there are no lines to follow) or scan the right column from the top and hope you counted correctly. It is more pleasing aesthetically, but less useable.

I guess the way to have both controls and labels to line up without separating them would be to put the labels after the controls. But it is not great to have the explanation of what a button does after the button. And there would still be issues with drop downs with different widths.

One of us misunderstands what visual anchors are. I consider the staggered drop downs visual anchors.

I don't disagree with a single point you made about the anesthetics, and still passionately believe the ux is worse now. The new one would look better in a luxury furniture catalog but humans using it would take longer to complete tasks and produce more mistakes.

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