Youth Cultures in East Germany 1985 / Stasi (East German Secret Police) | Hacker News Reader

Youth Cultures in East Germany 1985 / Stasi (East German Secret Police)

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79 pointsTomte51 comments

I had the pleasure of visiting the DDR Museum in Berlin [1] last month. I expected it to be about all the atrocities/hardship/etc but it was mainly a pleasant description of day-to-day life.

The thing I found the most amusing was the description of nude beaches. Apparently it was a point of tension between the Soviets and the Germans, but the Germans just kept getting naked and the Soviets gave up trying to police it. I can't find any great online descriptions of it, but this [2] seems to do a decent job.

[1] https://www.ddr-museum.de/en

[2] https://gdrobjectified.wordpress.com/2014/08/08/fkk/

Nudism is definitely a big part of East German culture. Not in an eye poking way, it just is and it's not a big deal. I've lived here for over a decade now, and it's had a positive impact on me. It's just pleasant to do it, even if only from time to time, and not stick out like a sore thumb. Or even to go to a mixed sauna, and noticing how nobody really cares since they are there for themselves. I did it in a different country a couple years ago, and even though it was a designated area, some bushes were missing and a couple giggled looking in our direction. In a way, I felt sorry for them.

Is it different in West Germany? I had the feeling the casual nudism was more just German culture and not really different between East and West.

As someone pointed out in the other comment, it's not that it doesn't exist, but my impression is, it's more conservative. Still, Germany is a large country, so what is true in one part, does not have to be true in another. E.g. Munich is West as much as idk Hamburg, but I doubt the culture is very similar.

There was a movie on TV some time ago with this as a theme https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barfu%C3%9F_bis_zum_Hals .

A lot of nudist camps were active in communist Yugoslavia, called FKK (Freikörperkultur), created and visited mostly by West Germans. So I guess there was not much difference between East and West Germany. For some reason, Germans in general are prone to nudism.

Considering it has its roots in the "Lebensreform" in the late 19th century, it's not that surprising that it's part of the culture. Still, American influence hasn't been good to it and it's also the reason why it's more prominent in Eastern Germany.

I didn't know about it, sounds really interesting. A museum about the atrocities is the Stasi museum[0]. I found it very striking, it has a "look at what these criminals did" attitude.

[0] https://www.stasimuseum.de/en/enindex.htm

I've gone to a few nudist places in California. I find nudism to be liberating and I especially like how its a great equalizer of people.

The first time I disrobed at a nudist colony was literally an altered state of consciousness. I was conditioned unwaveringly from before my earliest memory to never, ever, ever, ever expose myself to anyone but doctors and lovers, on pain of shame, arrest, maybe ruin. For about 20 seconds I was overwhelmed by the cognitive and emotional dissonance of some sort of superposition of worlds. And then everything was fine.

> And then everything was fine

That was my experience. It's not a big deal once the shock of the new wears off

I was uncomfortably nervous at the local nude beach, where a very large owl was surveying the scene. I couldn’t help but figure that it’d be dead easy to mistake a flaccid penis for a mouse! I rolled over face-down out of a sense of self-preservation.

Second this, and also recommend visiting the Stasi museum at the old Stasi HQ in "East" Berlin. It's almost entirely in German, but the displays of everyday instruments used to suppress the East German people, all the shredded documents, and the SCENT JARS, are truly astounding to see. Absolutely worth it.

Interesting even for an Eastern German. Having grown up in a small village I guess the further one gets from the cities the more the different subcultures merge because the groups wouldn't be big enough on their own.

For instance in my little home village it was mostly Heavies vs Poppers, where the latter mainly consisted of Depeche Mode and Cure fans (so a lot of overlap with Goths). I'm surprised about the 'neutral' description of Skins, the East German skinhead scene was clearly neo-fascist, at least in the late 80's / early 90's.

It looks like they equate Satanists with the Cure fans. I'd feel slightly offended but it doesn't seem close to me and besides, boys don't cry.

Noted, how often they referenced the churches?

One would think, that those groups and the church usually do not go along very well.

But since the catholic and protestant churches were oppressed too, they indeed often provided a save haven, for other groups. Because giving a concert for example, required a permission, but music in the context of the church was allowed, etc.

If you look at the lower portion of the full poster, church connections are discussed in a number of them. Look for "kirch" or "kirchl."

From what I can tell from various sources I've read over the years, the evangelical churches were particularly involved in the underground movements in the DDR.

"the evangelical churches were particularly involved"

In absolute numbers for sure, because traditionally (since the 30 year war), the east of germany is mainly protestantic. In my home town there are around 10 evangelical churches and only 1 katholic. But they were quite active, as far as I can tell. And I have not read much about it, but got the stories firsthand.

For those interested in some good history of the punk movement in East Berlin, I recommend the book Burning Down the Haus by Tom Mohr. Really gives a window into the courage, creativity, and motivation of the youth, and their oppression by the Stasi.

Which of them listens to Kino?

"Kino" as in the Soviet rock band? Soviet "culture" wasn't popular at all among the East German youth. And since the information flow out of the Soviet Union was heavily filtered through the official propaganda channels, even if there was good stuff (like Kino) it hardly made it into East Germany.

Ironically, "unfiltered" Western radio and TV - while a taboo - was widely available, except in the "Valley of the Clueless" (Tal der Ahnungslosen) around Dresden :)

“Glorification of creepy effects” which they cited The Cure. Love it! The fractional view of society and culture is always fascinating in totalitarian states.

If I was a stasi type organization, knowing what we have learned from the past, I would create my own youth culture. Its ideology would be designed by me. Its leaders would be picked and hired by me. All competitors would be carefully suppressed.

They did. Soviet and east German governments (and, because communism, also the culture) had a number of official youth groups (e.g. Junge Pioniere and FDJ: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ernst_Th%C3%A4lmann_Pioneer_Or...)

And we have the boy sprouts. But it's hardly hip and rebellious.

A proper youth culture emerges naturally, and mocks the establishment. It is not a contrived appendage of it.

Marxist and fascist youth organisations were designed to use the youthful rebellion - and channel and direct them at their parents. To move them away from them and under the influence of the parties movement.

Why is there no geek or nerd subculture represented?

Because they only existed in very small numbers, and were not perceived as a threat. Which is what the Stasi cared about.

I think those are primarily American cultural archetypes.

Do we even have a youth culture now? I think not.

No music as far as I can tell.

And all the "culturally enthusiastic" youth that I know are just into masks, identity politics, transgender and race stuff... Which is heavily subsidized by the corporate/government media and therefore far from genuine.

Did it get subverted out of existence?

"Am I out of touch? No, it's the children who are wrong."

I can't follow what you're suggesting here. Every statement sounds wrong to my ears as though we're speaking different languages. But I'm really curious what you mean. Can you elaborate?

Specifically -- can you go into a some more detail about what "youth culture" means to you, and what makes one genuine vs not?

Lol. I wasn't born yesterday. I know a drawing-out maneuver when I see it.

Arguably, music isn't what young people care about any more (Rick Beato did one of his vidijeremiads about this recently), so there aren't any youth music subcultures. It does seem to have refocused towards identity politics.

Youth culture is alive and well.

And as for music subcultures, I'm a fan of several genres which have distinctive fashions, art styles and world views - rave, psytrance, drum and bass, hardcore punk, metal. It's great to go along to gigs and meet people from those different groups.

I think what has changed is that those subcultures are no longer exclusive to young people. It has become more acceptable for people to be outwardly "alternative" later in life, so people remain in the cultures they found when they were young.

What is one modern youth subculture?

Can you name it, its philosophy (roughly, in a nutshell), its music-style and its style of dress?

Because I can't.

Can you name 2 or 3?

As an outsider, it also seems the different subcultures mix now. In the 80s, you would never see some of these groups mingling together. But do they today? Honest question.

Re : honest question.

That might be called a whiff of subculture. That assumption that a question is a feint and a conversation is a fight. That paranoia.

That's a new and ubiquitous thing. Strong basis for... some kind of cultural formation.

Yeah...it really sucks when the current generation doesn't rebel in a way approved by the 'rebels' of a previous generation. You should do something about that...tell them to get off your lawn or something.

When the rebels are sponsored by the government and top corporations, it isn't really rebellion.

I feel like it's always been the same to some extent, capitalism is just much stronger now and globalisation (of merchandise and information) mean there are much less regional/country specific movements.

It's still easy to find niche groups, the signal to noise ratio is completely fucked though

Are raves still a thing?

I'm a big fan of moody ambient electronica, but I can't imagine anybody pogoing to it.

What do the kids dance to these days?

Are there still mosh pits?

All of this still happens, you just have to look for them. Kids dance to whatever they want, have a look at any social media, they probably dance more than ever before.

Kids don't go to mosh pits but these still happen. There are raves year round all around the world, from electro to death metal

Maybe you got too old and/or just plain disconnected from the new youth culture(s), it doesn't mean it doesn't exist

Yes.

Various.

Yes.

Whether it is more or less, like say 20 years ago, I could not tell, but I would say it is more divers today. Less strict defined scenes.

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