Create macOS or Linux virtual machines | Hacker News Reader

Create macOS or Linux virtual machines

developer.apple.com

144 pointshugolundin49 comments

Ongoing related thread:

Running Intel Binaries in Linux VMs with Rosetta - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31644990 - June 2022 (25 comments)

I was very excited, very briefly, by the title of this post.

Now very disappointed.

Well, Asahi Linux is a thing

The title and the Apple domain made it look for a second like an officially supported solution to run Linux directly on Apple silicon. This would have been so much more than Asahi Linux.

The title should have been "Create macOS or Linux virtual machines" but I guess OP chose something that sounds more attractive and "votable".

Well, not to bash the OP, but a "votable" title does distracts us from a conversation about the actual changes to Mac OS.

I might have misinterpreted the session description, but “We’ll also explore how you can install and run full Linux distributions on Apple Silicon” is the sentence that made me post this in the first place.

Edit: Also, while I agree that the title sounds click baity, it is a quote from the description, that I wanted to highlight. Using the session title wouldn’t have done that. Guess we’ll see, when the session drops tomorrow.

Opposite reaction here.

This looks like it's just running Linux VMs as a guest in macOS, right? Was that not already possible on macOS, or just not possible on the M1/M2 chips?

It was not possible on M1/M2 chips (aside from a commercial solution, Parallels, which is €99.99/yr).

What was Docker doing?

Nope, it was possible and the API is open for anyone to use. UTM (open source, $10 for a built product) supports it.

https://www.naut.ca/blog/2021/12/09/arm64-vm-on-macos-with-l...

You can attach a GUI to the VM now.

Same, but I re-read the text:

Learn how you can use the Virtualization framework to quickly create virtual machines on your Mac. We'll show you how to create a virtual Mac and quickly test changes to your app in an isolated environment. We'll also explore how you can install and run full Linux distributions on Apple silicon, and share how you can take advantage of Rosetta 2 to run x86-64 Linux binaries.

(emphasis mine) the way that bit reads suggests installing on bare metal too.

> We'll also explore how you can install and run full Linux distributions on Apple silicon

… in a VM on macOS as the host system.

Changed now. (Submitted title was "Run full Linux distributions on Apple Silicon")

I'm still reasonably excited by the new title of this post.

Virtualization support is one of the things I've still been missing on the M1.

VMware Fusion M1 Tech Preview has been available since last September. Give it a try.

I've desperately been trying to get an account with VMware, and I simply cannot. Every account I've tried making doesn't let me login.

Is there some trick to letting me give them money?

No idea (I don't work for VMware), have you tried contacting support?

I sure did. Radio silence.

Before we get too excited by the title of the article which looks too good to offer what you may think it offers, in reality it is still virtualization with in macOS allowing Linux to be run as a guest and not a full installation.

Wait... can't we already do this using UTM?!?

"We'll also explore how you can install and run full Linux distributions on Apple silicon, and share how you can take advantage of Rosetta 2 to run x86-64 Linux binaries." That sounds like running Linux on bare metal...

Or it is just going to be a video demonstrating this:

https://developer.apple.com/documentation/virtualization/run...

It's annoyingly ambiguous. The "on Apple silicon" and "full Linux" strongly suggest it's bare metal. (Why say it that way if it's not?)

But the title is "Create macOS or Linux virtual machines", which strongly suggests it's not bare metal.

But sometimes people write titles that only hit the biggest highlights, and the title may not mention everything that's in the video, so it's not impossible that it's Mac VMs, Linux VMs, and Linux bare metal.

Yeah the vagueness is annoying. They let us run windows via boot camp why not let us run Linux on bare metal? A man can dream. But kudos to the asahi Linux folks — they’re doing amazing work.

I'd love a supported and streamlined option to provision native macOS VM's. Currently other solutions leave much to be desired.

UTM doesn't leave that much to be desired does it? I mean something first-party would be nice, but it's not like we're in a terrible state as it is...

For those wondering what's new, you can now attach a GUI now even if you use the Virtualization framework. Previously you'd have to use the lower-level Hypervisor framework and provide your own framebuffer device.

Somebody has to write a longer and in-depth essay on the basics for us non-system programmer to know what is going on and what is expected. Wsl1 and wsl2 is under stable, like mvs is. Guess Microsoft and IBM are in the same family tree in this aspects.

Apple always confuse me. What is this, anyone please.

I'm still keeping my Intel Mac around to run Vagrant nicely with VirtualBox.

Will this let me spin up VMs with VirtualBox again on my M1? If so, oh my gosh sign me up right now.

I was expecting something more than full machine emulation I guess. But there's no way apple would publish instruction on replacing macOS with Linux.

there is https://asahilinux.org/ for that...

Agreed, which is why I found the link to apple.com surprising.

So do I. I read it totally convinced another ash… linux and then I read the link, it is from apple. Wow.

> But there's no way apple would publish instruction on replacing macOS with Linux

They support "replacing" macOS with Windows 10. I haven't personally tested it, but I hear Windows 10 ARM even runs on the M1.

Windows 10/11 ARM currently only work in virtual machines, Apple does not provide ARM drivers for Windows like they did for Intel editions.

To be fair there is no publicly commercialized version of Windows ARM. They only licence OEM.

So even if Apple wanted to provide ARM driver they probably couldn't for legal reasons. So why should they bother and who can blame them?

>Windows 10 ARM

RIP, we hardly knew ye.

What about Windows? Can I run Windows x86 in a VM on M2?

Parallels currently supports it, but for whatever reason it's Windows 11 only.

It's because Windows 10 for ARM doesn't boot on Apple Silicon.

I tried Windows 10 and Windows 11 on a Mac M1 with UTM and Windows 11 with Parallels.

I found that Windows 11 ran much better than Windows 10 (it gets stuck) on UTM and I found that Parallels ran much better than UTM.

So, I’d say yes.

Dang, title should be “Create macOS or Linux virtual machines”

Literally "dangit!" and also dang

Changed now. (Submitted title was "Run full Linux distributions on Apple Silicon")

This is extremely basic stuff that I would expect any half decent computer to be able to do. I'd be more surprised if it were impossible but I guess this is Apple we're talking about.

Getting access to Rosetta for VMs could be a big win as I don’t think it was available previously so you were stuck with much slower QEMU based x86_64 emulation.

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