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Comment by delinka | Hacker News Reader

"I'd like to become an electrician, but don't want to fork out the money to buy wire cutters or something similar."

Yes, the analogy falls apart because you don't run proprietary software on wire-cutters. I understand that you might want to "try before you buy" with Mac and iOS dev, but I'm speaking to a slightly different issue.

If you want to do a job, you either acquire the tools to do the job (wire cutters/a Mac) or you Work Harder rather than Working Smarter (bend the wire until it breaks/shoehorn OS X onto a Hackintosh.)

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That analogy is utter nonsense.

With a Linux or Windows desktop equipped with a good toolbox we can cross-compile to a wide range of architectures. That this range doesn't currently include the iPhone is completely accidental; it's merely a consequence of a business decision by Apple (and it might even be a good business decision for all I know). It doesn't tell us anything about the adequacy of a Linux/Windows desktop as a tool.

I think there is a difference between "effectiveness of the tool in general" vs. "effectiveness of a tool for the particular purpose".

Pliers are a fantastic tool. You can even put the screws in with it. But it is a very poor tool for putting in the nails. Arguably it is merely a consequence of a business decision to have nails the way they are. For that you need a hammer.

Therefore I believe the parent analogy makes perfect sense. If you wanna write iPhone apps, get the tool that does the job. At this point in time this is a Mac. Linux/Windows is a fantastic tool, but for making iPhone apps it is rather useless.

I don't get your point. OK, a Linux desktop is normally useless to make iPhone apps. But this thread is about a tool that allows you to you use your Linux desktop to make iPhone apps. I was disagreeing with a comment implying that somehow you must have a physical Mac to make iPhone apps.

My point was: "can" != "should". At least not in case of serious development.

For myself - I'd probably consider using this to tinker with XCode and see if maybe I should get myself a Mac if I get into iP(hone|ad) app development beyond trying to compile "Hello world".

Anyway, having Linux as my only OS for circa 8 last years (minus some powerpoint operating system use due to practical constraints @work), I would be curious if you have any experience developing for iPhone/iPad on Linux/Windows that you can share.

But the OS isn't the tool: the project-building, code-compiling apps are the tools.

Cocotron or GNUStep plus Chameleon will get you most of the way to developing iOS apps on other platforms. I imagine there is some work to do to round out the experience, but tis the nature of open source.

There's definitely nothing stopping you from developing iOS apps on other platforms though. It's just going to be a bit more work than using the polished packages from Apple.

[1] http://cocotron.org/ [2] http://www.gnustep.org/ [3] http://chameleonproject.org/

This is pretty cool, thanks. Do you know of any tutorials that would guide the Apple-noob through the process of compiling a "Hello, world!" type of App for iPad/iPhone entirely on linux ?

The ones I found were talking mostly of Objective C development for other platforms, not on other platforms. Being pretty much 100% linux-only, I do not feel like purchasing the Mac just for toying around. (And maybe this kind of service "in the cloud" could be for me - but would be curious if one can do it on linux).

Wire cutters cost a couple bucks. A decent Mac you could use for development is a bit more expensive.

The cost is not relevant to my point. If you want to start a courier service in a fairly large area, motorized vehicles are a bit more expensive than a Mac.

Can't afford the tools? Find another line of work.

I don't see how the fact that I don't want to pay for a specific set of tools (a mac machine) prevents me from being interested in alternative tools.

In the case of iOS development, alternative tools have their own cost: effort to set up and maintain. Akin to how most operating systems besides Windows take additional effort to set up on that new Dell. If you can afford this extra effort (i.e. have the patience to work through the quirks), then you're welcome to it. Complaining about needing to obtain a Mac to gain the convenience of Apple's development environment is pointless.

Oh, I agree on that. My point is that it's my own decision to choose what works best for me. I was more reacting on your "find another line of work".

The cost certainly is relevant. You can lease or rent a cube van. You can't rent $10 tools.

One can also lease computers. Including Macs.

http://store.apple.com/us_smb_78313/browse/home/shop_mac/fam...

The price of leasing a Mac Mini from Apple is $25 per month ($34 with more RAM, but that would be silly to pay for). Much cheaper than the model of renting a virtual machine, plus works with your local devices. The only problem is, Apple Business leasing has a minimum order.

Of course, if you can't stand Objective-C and want to stop, the virtual machine gives you a simpler path to quitting.

It's the artificial limitation that drives everyone crazy.

It's the difference between having to buy a van to start a courier service, and having to buy a BMW because someone says you have to. I understand the necessity of having to own a van to run my business, but why do I have to pay extra for one that has no extra capability?

I did mobile dev for a living. Cross compiling across architectures and OSes is part and parcel to the beast. The fact that Apple won't let you is an artificial restriction.

Replying to delinka here because I can't reply directly:

It's very sad that there should be any kind of pay wall behind tinkering with your mobile phone. I get that if you intend on making an app that's going to earn you millions then buying a Mac is small change. But what if you're just starting out, and are curious about how to go about making iOS apps?

It's a real disappointment that anyone would think attaching a $1,000 price tag to programming is a good thing.

Actually, it's more like being an electrician and wanting to work on a particular job, but having to buy a very specific, very expensive tool just for that job. I'd like to dabble in iOS development but I've already paid a decent amount of money to buy a machine that does any other programming work I need, so I don't want to spend another £1000 - £1500 just to experiment, and I wouldn't use the Mac for anything else.

It's very common to hire tools, particularly expensive ones that you don't use very much.

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