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Comment by Yeri | Hacker News Reader

Where are these plots of land?

Right now I have offerings in Spain, Portugal, Arizona, The Netherlands, Slovenia, Kroatia, Norway, Finland. For Americans I can offer a permanent visa for Europe as well, this is why the main focus is on Spain and Portugal.

I constantly search around the world, but most lands do not qualify because of local political rules. My best is a 100 acre(!) forest on the slope of a mountain. I have several mountain plots with a whitewater river flowing all year. Land plots with an entire forest or lake.

I tried to offer land in Kazachstan, Ukrain, Bangladesh, India, Argentina, Costa Rica, Australia and the Amazon rainforest but either foreigners are not allowed to own land or it is without Starlink or fiber backbones where not available or the country is involved in a war.

Above $50K (including the land, mobile house and infrastructure) I have a lot more offerings worldwide. Islands in Belize or very remote pacific islands, but you need a boat so its more than $50K. Desert locations, but you must have 4WD and only have two satelite or radio 100mbps connections and need multiple batteries, no fiber. Medical facilities only by plane or helicopter.

I have a friend who moved on some land near Holbrook, Arizona and it is challenging from what he says.

No electricity, has to truck in water, nearest paved road is 45 minutes, closest big box store (Costco) is in Phoenix, dirt roads flood when it rains and he has to camp out in the post office parking lot when it snows so he doesn’t get stuck trying to go work.

And he loves it…

I stopped overnight in Holbrook on my way through to Phoenix in January, they were supposed to get an inch or so of snow overnight, and the locals kept advising me to wait until the snow clears before resuming my trip. I was tickled because I'm from the rural midwest where 2 inches of fresh snow was a best case scenario growing up. Holbrook gets about 5 inches of snow a year whereas my native county would get 42 inches (the US average is a little under 30).

I live in snow country too, and I think this advice isn't really about your ability to handle the snow. It's that they don't get snow often enough to know how to drive on snow. Then there's all the out-of-towners that drive faster than 60km/h when it's puking snow.

They also don't have rescue equipment like the midwest. We have scalable plow trucks which work for medium rescue and even special large tracked vehicles for deep snow efforts.

If Holbrook is getting snow then Flagstaff is probably getting hammered which is most likely what they were concerned about. I’ve been through Flagstaff a few times when they really should have shut down the roads but didn’t for who knows why, it’s not like Arizonans are known for their bad weather driving skills. They actually have a “Stupid Motorist Law” for people who drive through flooded roads and have to be rescued because it happens so often.

Two times I have almost and even started to drive through a flooded road in the east coast. During Hurricane Sandy aftermath and another time. Luckily both times my immense worry of social embarrassment saved me from possibly getting stuck. A “Stupid Motorist Law” sounds good. I don’t know the first thing about cars, I shouldn’t be driving through flooded roads to save 30 min.

For Americans, how much does it cost to get permanent residency? To my understanding, it's $500k for a golden visa from Spain, which is too rich for my blood.

That sounds weird. I would expect a 500k donation (and probably much less) to give you access to the nationality.

Definitely not the case for Portugal. You can invest 500K, but it’s not a donation, you still own the asset. Or you can apply for a D7 visa.

An American can get a permanent working visa in the EU (most of Europe) by starting a company and having $4500 sitting idle in a bank account. You still own this $4500 and can spend it after a few years. In essence the Dutch government wants you to reserve the money for a airplane ticket and the move back to the US. Without this money you look like an economic refugee and they won't give you your visa.

So I have set up a few companies (a Coop, a non-profit and C-Corp, LTD, B.V.) in the Netherlands just for this purpose. You register yourself as a cofounder/owner of this company (free) and put $4500 in the company bank account. You now qualify for a working visa and can start roaming all over the EU.

I'm a little vague here, because I want to sell you all the advice and legal work to set all this up for $1000. You first get advice from all the other Americans I helped emigrate to Europe over the years. morphle at ziggo dot nl

Without my help it will cost you a few months, three visits to the Netherlands, setting up a company from scratch and hiring a notary, a lawyer and an expat fiscal tax lawyer for at least $19.000 all together.

Does the permanent working visa have a path to citizenship in an EU country?

Yes, but only for Americans

>"An American can get a permanent working visa in the EU (most of Europe) by starting a company and having $4500 sitting idle in a bank account."

Are you referring to DAFT? Isn't this only for NL though? Also don't you actually have to show that one of your companies is making money or they won't renew your visa after a year or so?

Yes. Under DAFT you only get a NL visum, but you then can live and work anywhere in the EU. No, you need to show you invest in your company (or have a valuable profession), but not need to show a profit. Renewal is not an issue.

I must give the standard HN disclaimer though, I can't give legal advise in public, I can not give legal advise here without knowing your individual situation. Talk to you lawyer instead.

The whole point of the turnkey house+land+permits+visa+remote working+infrastructure package we make brochures, a community website and a Coop for is that you need legal support on top of the land buying, (off-grid) house building and electricity/fast internet, water recycling and remote working. We can't give legal advise in public, we can just warn you that is complicated.

The 50k is just the plot of land, or comes with a (decently) build cabin? I’ve actually been looking (in my spare time, not very seriously) into owning something in either Finland or Norway. I’m a EU citizen, so visa is not a requirement.

A friend of mine is building entirely off-grid in Finland: https://medium.com/@upnorthandoffgrid

I’m not that interested in off-grid, but I am in a nice plot of land with nature, a decent home on it (as sustainable as possible) that I can use for a few months/year.

Let me know once you launch a site.

$50K is for a complete turnkey package: a custom house build, the land, legal fees for permits, the infrastructure (you would need a lot of extra solar panels, heat storage, batteries, water and sewer purification in Finland and Norway especially near the artic) and to be able work remotely you need more than a Starlink satellite dish. You probably need at least one electric car as well. It all depends on the location of the land. Your picking the most expensive northern place in terms of cost of living, land prices alone are much higher here. You might need to build a road. Renting out the place for most of the year might cover your cost, but I guess $50K is not a lot in this part of Europe.

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