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Comment by tptacek | Hacker News Reader

No, you were always much better off installing Python yourself than using the system's Python, which mostly served to get in the way.

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I see where the GP is coming from. The old system installations of Perl, Python, and Ruby could be thought of as the 2000s equivalent of the ROM BASIC on early microcomputers -- an easy way for anyone with access to such a computer, even a child, to start dabbling with programming. But I suppose today's equivalent is the browser dev tools, or maybe Swift Playgrounds on current Apple computers.

The difference is that the barrier to entry is so much lower now. If I were trying to help someone just starting out, I would point them at something like repl.it instead of whatever is preinstalled on their machine.

The system Python and Ruby installs on macOS at this point are more of a hindrance to newbies than a help. You have to explain the differences between versions and hope they don't have to deal with any conflicts.

  > The system Python and Ruby installs on macOS at this point are more of a hindrance to newbies than a help

true, though it wouldn't be so bad if macos had a built-in package manager instead of needing to reach for homebrew (as great as it is)

Yes, once you were up and running and knew what you were doing and what you needed, but the default install meant there was very little friction to first time programmers dipping their toes in the water.

There was a ton of friction trying to use pip. Same with ruby gems. So a lot of tutorials for web development put you in a pickle quickly.

Depends on the tutorial I guess. I learned python back in 08/09 so maybe the landscape has changed but I had already written full pieces of software before I ever worried about installing 3rd party libs via pip etc

In an alternate universe they could have done something about it, the same way a debian ships with a version, and if you don’t want it you change it.

Apple is no small startup that can’t maintain an update system (could have been just part of the xcode tools), so I kinda resent them for dropping the ball completely.

Well, I'm irritated at them for exposing a system Python at all, because I need Python to actually work, the way I need it to, so my point here is: Apple can't win.

It's a single line copy, paste & enter from brew.sh.

This might be the closest to the "just install jquery" advice I can think of

That’s a Python issue with how janky their language versioning and package infrastructure is, not an issue with shipping a language.

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