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Comment by buf | Hacker News Reader

This really bums me out.

I was a convicted felon at 18 years old, poor, living on the street.

It wasn't any government re-integration program that helped me, it was a random person I met in highschool.

I worked my way through everything -> college -> jobs -> startups -> lucky windfalls -> owning my own company. I've immigrated to Europe (3 times in the last 10 years technically), beating the legal issues each time.

And finally, after 17 years, I'm no longer a felon thanks to a pardon and expungement.

I really wish something like 70MR would stay up. Not everyone can be as lucky as me. Is there some place I can donate?

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It's your type of understanding and fervor that's needed for a 70MR to move forward. Have you considered taking it over? Think about it. Sometimes you're the solution.

I haven't considered taking it over until your comment just now. I've always told myself I'd write a book and do some talks at some point in my life, but I've been heads down either trying to survive or building companies that I put it off.

Thanks for the idea.

Richard, I'll shoot you an email.

Email is in the original post: Richard@70MillionJobs.com.

just a suggestion, but another option is to make a high-quality archive of the business - contacts, software packages used, consultants who worked with them, etc., in order to revive it efficiently if/when the day comes.

Definitively sounds like you have one of the bests existing opportunities to implement the 2.0 of that idea.

I am considering several blockchain approaches.

I will help you.

i'd also help! (backend swe)

If you do go through with this, you can get quite a bit of competent volunteer work, especially from potential beneficiaries and retired programmers.

Post to HN if this moves forward and you want volunteers / low paid staff - currently I dn't know how you find thsiad volunteers when you are finally ready.

Thank you.

thx!

Thanks for the offer.

Count me in to help. I have a knack for making the impossible possible. I’ve mentored EIT’s through Defy in the past.

If you need clients I expect corp to corp agreements with established recruitment agencies would be a good place to start generating revenues.

Thanks for your kind offer to help.

Glad I could help. I know it won't be a breeze but I would hope that at the very least the job board continues. I'm sure there are plenty of people that will find it very helpful now and in the future. You've gone thru many of the difficulties associated with the situation and have risen above them. There are very few people with the experience needed to help others given the same circumstances. I wish you the best!

Hey Wheels-thanks for sharing your positive thoughts. We had 2 business lines: our job board and our staffing business. The job board is very low touch, although it does require dedicated personnel driving employer acquisition. But the tech side is easy.

By far, the bigger business is the staffing company, and it requires lots of people to land large corporate accts and service them day-to-day and drive job-seeker acquisition. People are expensive, as you know.

I think you are doing some important work. I'm pretty sure that there's a need for your services. It's just hard to keep it going with all the economic turbulence we've had these past years.

I would hope that at the very least the job board continues. It would be a big loss to have it all disappear. I wish you all the best!

I really hope you, or someone else, takes another stab at this project when the economic winds shift. It's a worthwhile endeavor.

Hey Buf-thanks for sharing your feelings and your kind words of support. And congrats for kicking ass in your release. A number of people have asked about donating, but frankly, I don't feel right about accepting charity. We'll get through this, and I will continue pursuing my life's work. Thank you again for your big heart. Richard

Thanks Richard. I feel so honored having worked on 3 unicorns, one of which I helped start. It's been instrumental in my companies that I run now.

If you're not comfortable with a cash donation, perhaps I can volunteer my time, or just be another inbox you hit up when you need to bounce an idea off someone.

> I don't feel right about accepting charity.

Maybe think of it this way? There are those of us who want to help but for whatever reasons can only feasibly do so though donations, if you were to accept our charity it would allow us to be part of the solution even if only a little.

In any event, may God bless you and may you succeed beyond your wildest dreams.

Emigration honestly is the most logical option for a felon. A few nations will accept local background checks in the immigration process, so if you move to a state where you don't have a record you can just get your police report from a place where your record is clean.

Another option is to go live in a Compact of Free Association nations such as Micronesia or Marshall Islands. US citizens are authorized to live and work there without a visa, so once you live overseas there for a few years you can immigrate to most other nations using the background check from your country of prior residence, which is now a country where you have a clear background.

It also opens up an opportunity to hit the big reset button of life. A new country, new culture, new friends and even new languages in many cases.

People have the opportunity to become a new person, and it's not just those with a criminal past either. Perhaps those who have experienced persecution can also start a new chapter in a safer environment.

In my case it was a credit score. I was in a bad motorcycle accident at 19, I defaulted on every loan at the time (vehicle + credit cards + medical debt) while I was busy learning how to walk again. 15 years later, I still couldn’t get a credit card for more than $250, told no to getting a mortgage even with a VA loan, etc. My credit score couldn’t get higher than 600 even after those defaults fell off my record. Now, I live in Europe and am trusted with thousands of Euros in debt if I want it. I can get a house without any issues…

That’s a fresh start that just simply was impossible in the US.

Similar story for me, but in my case I was an idiot with undiagnosed and untreated mental illness and a $20,000 line of credit for no good reason. Blew through a ton of money and wasn’t making much either. Ended up saddled with medical debt after an accident. Medical debt has been erased but the others are still on top of me. I don’t need anything in the near future credit wise though it would be nice to have a line of credit in case of emergencies.

> 15 years later, I still couldn’t get a credit card for more than $250, told no to getting a mortgage even with a VA loan, etc. My credit score couldn’t get higher than 600 even after those defaults fell off my record.

Fuck at this point let’s start throwing debtors in prison. At least we’ll shelter people who might otherwise be homeless.

I mean the US does have debtor's prison. Fall behind in child support and you'll be thrown in jail, have your licenses revoked, property and vehicles seized, and passport confiscated. It won't be dischargeable in bankruptcy either. You then get to try and re-enter the labor market with a criminal record, and probably with even more arrears with looming further action. You basically become civilly dead.

IF you formerly had a very high wage job it can also be nearly impossible to convince a judge that your 'imputed income' should fall again, even if industry has shifted and you no longer can find those high wage jobs anymore. 20% of your pre-tax imputed income can easily become the majority or worse of your post-tax income if the bottom falls out of your industry, and then you are fucked.

After 7 years your credit history should be empty. So likely you couldn’t get loans for lack of credit history. There is also no such thing as a VA vehicle loan. Many of us went through this same thing in 2012.

It wasn’t empty, but apparently only having credit limits of less than a few thousand dollars when you are making over a hundred k a year is a red flag. Also, just because you don’t see the negative things in your credit report doesn’t mean it still doesn’t affect your score. The US credit system is all kinds of fucked up. I’m glad I don’t have to deal with it anymore.

> The US credit system is all kinds of fucked up. I’m glad I don’t have to deal with it anymore.

There is a law requiring the removal of debts over 7 years old. The only “report” that it would stay on is with an internal report with the specific bank.

The missing caveat from my personal experience is that this was all years ago. Things are probably different these days, especially after the recession.

Things are not different these days, this information comes from my experience from 2012. The 7 years law has likely been in place since before you were born.

Federal law stipulates that negative information can only stay on a credit report for 7 years although I was able to get much of it off before then. I opened up some secured cards and got some secured loans and now I have an 800 credit score and no problem getting credit. It is definitely possible to start over without leaving the country. I did have to do some research, but there are entire forums dedicated to credit repair.

It's sad. It shouldn't have to be radical solutions like that. Poster above is very luck he had his record expunged (although it's possible his record lives on in Google). Most convicted persons are never able to clear their record, even decades later.

How is a person with a criminal record, no job, no support network, and no savings supposed to move to another country?

Add no degree. Many especially in CS might even be highly skilled but have no degree to show for it.

EDIT: And only speak e̶n̶g̶l̶i̶s̶h̶ a single language.

Several options

1) Marshall islands or Micronesia. Buy flight on credit, do farm or whatever labor you can to eat while you get booted. No visa needed to live or work.

2) Some nations such as Argentina have effectively no immigration enforcement. Once you're in the country you're good and you can file a court case to become a citizen immediately (you'll have to wait 2+ year for it to be granted). In the meantime the legal system in Argentina has to treat you as a citizen while you're waiting on your case.

If you truly have ABSOLUTELY NOTHING and no access to credit you may be able to hitchhike and/or work on boats/yachts to get to any nation in the Americas.

3) Or, not recommending it, but you can be like the illegal immigrants. Enter somewhere on a tourist visa and take informal jobs like illegal immigrants do. Seems to work for some of them in a variety of European and South American countries.

4) Join a foreign militia/military. French foreign legion, Ukraine. Also YPG and some Kurdish militias I think still accepts recruits and they don't require anything past your flight which you could buy on credit. French foreign legion will grant you citizenship after two contracts and will feed you in the meanwhile, even while you're trying out.

5) Work with an English teaching organization that does not perform FBI background check. Some exist but they may not be plentiful. They may help you get a job in a new nation.

6) Marry a Brazilian (or few other nations). Many jurisdictions in Brazil will issue a permanent residence visa without much scrutiny if you are married or have a Brazilian child. Believe Cape Verde also gives instant citizenship for marriage.

7) IF you can enter Philippines on 'Balakbayan' visa (married to Filipino) then you'll be issued a 1 year visa without scrutiny. After 6 months in the country they don't require background checks from anywhere but Philippines. Wait 7 months after entering, use your spouse to apply for work and permanent visa.

Most of these are bad advice.

First, flying on credit isn't nearly as easy as you make it out to be. Yes, a bunch of companies are buy now, pay later. They fall into two groups. The first does it based on your credit. The second is a layaway plan - by the time you get on the plane you've managed to pay in full. Ex-cons struggling to get a job usually have neither. Nobody wants to give money to a person who looks like they are trying to disappear. (Because you just know your money is going to disappear with them...)

Second, a lot of your plans require going to countries where you need another language. That's going to be a challenge for most ex-cons.

Third, while the French Foreign Legion is romantic and all, they won't take you if they find you have a criminal record. Other foreign legions are similar. They might not find out, but do you want to spend your life savings betting on that?

Fourth, marrying someone from another country is an uphill battle for someone who lacks a job. Particularly when most of the women from those countries looking to marry an American would like to wind up in the USA rather than the reverse.

These are all amazing plans, and I'm sure that some succeed with each. But they're going to work out poorly for most ex-cons who try them.

If you simply look for ways to fail, you'll never succeed.

My statement is direct towards goal oriented people who want to succeed and are willing to iteratively test their options until something works. Not failures who are unwilling to take a risk or work for a reward. If you can't get a credit card, then hitchhike and/or volunteer on a yacht or just be homeless and work day labor that doesn't check your record until you've saved up a chunk.

An individual who is capable of success is capable of tirelessly executing options until they find one that works. And that is possible. Staying in the US means you will never fully regain your civil rights if convicted of a federal crime. Leaving means you have the chance of having the full civil rights of a citizen, somewhere.

Which of these options worked for you?

When I was homeless I have hitchhiked without using money, then slept in a ditch for weeks in Williston North Dakota where the oil industry was booming and no one performed background checks. After a few weeks of day labor (part time sleeping in a ditch, part time crashing with a generous but drunk ex-felon in a trailor) I had enough money for a train ticket to an extremely cheap midwestern city where I used my wages to buy a month in an AirBnB which allowed me to have a residence to do local factory work.

Regarding going out of country, I have joined a foreign militia prior that had some ex-cons in it, that did not require anything other than a plane ticket to join. I did not know the language, but learned (some of it) along the way. Travelling extensively you learn to communicate without knowing much of the language. I believe I paid for that ticket with a credit card.

So out of my "Several Options" I can personally say (4) would work and been tested by me. Domestically I can say hitch-hiking to an oil field and sleeping in a ditch until you can afford better would work (met lots of felons that did same). I also married a filipina while I was completely broke, so (7) would work as well although I haven't personally done it, it would be trivial for me to execute it.

Why did this comment get downvoted? It doesn't sound like a lie.

Buying a plane ticket sounds impossible for someone without a job, but you would be surprised how much money you can make by busking, day labor, or just straight up begging. I've made over $100 in 2 hours just from flailing on a cheap guitar in a busy location.

Sure, I had to have a skill to begin with, but saying you can't do it is wrong. Just most people won't do it because they think they can't do it.

And if you get beaten because you infringed on some territory or cops having a bad day, you can loose the guitar or worse.

Most people don't have the location. It's expensive to live where that kind of opportunity exists.

Outside of America, maybe, but most people in America live close to a gas station or a highway intersection.

My income quote comes from a gas station in a backwater town in the deep woods of Alabama, and I'm not a great guitarist or something amazing worth throwing money at.

Yeah I'm not a busker myself but I've found "middle America" and more humble populations to be more generous in general. It's not the rich who typically empathize with someone on the street, it's a working class person who's been there.

Sounds like you're talking about a one-time thing then rather than a sustainable practice. I think if you loiter in front of a gas station you will be rousted by police in much less than a week.

> Third, while the French Foreign Legion is romantic and all, they won't take you if they find you have a criminal record.

This is not true unless you are wanted by interpol or a very serious record such as murder.

For an American, might crossing into Canada be an easier option?

I don't think Canada would be easier. People with a criminal conviction are generally "inadmissible" without special permission.[1]

And if someone was desperate enough to try to hide a US criminal record, Canada is the last country they should try, because Canada and the US share their criminal history databases.

1: https://www.canada.ca/en/immigration-refugees-citizenship/se...

To support this: http://foreignlegion.info/joining/

The page is pretty plain language reading which makes it appear very trustworthy.

However, they avoid explicitly saying that past crimes - whether convicted and served or not - don't matter. The DO say that catching the eye of Interpol is bad.

Why not Mexico? Enforcement is not as strict there?

Please, please be very cautious, read this comment critically, consult a friend or anyone minimally smart before doing any of this stuff.

Have you actually done any of the 7 options you mention? (If you have, I'd love to hear details). I think you may be going on bad information on at least some of them. For the record, I have a federal conviction in the US. I got out of prison at age 28, finished my degrees (CS & math), and succeeded as an early employee at a startup, so it is possible. Then in 2014 I went to Argentina for the supposed "2 year citizenship", which ended up taking 6 years, and a good amount of money to pursue it. I lived on money generated entirely in the US - the economy of Argentina is much, much worse than the US. If you're basing your research on the baexpats forum and specifically bajo_cero2's comments, that may have been true before 2013, but not anymore.

I'm not saying your suggestions are 100% impossible, but they're more for people who are on the run (i.e. very desperate) rather than those with a conviction.

There’s also the Dutch-American Friendship Treaty which allows you to open a business and live in the Netherlands if your background is clean for the last 10 years. You only need a €4500 investment in the business and another couple k for the application fees. This is what I did.

For no. 7 I can confirm this since our Bureau of Immigration is not really up to standard, if you know what I mean. Convicted felons usually end up here, if I can remember the 4chan server was hosted in Philippines at one point.

> If you truly have ABSOLUTELY NOTHING and no access to credit you may be able to hitchhike and/or work on boats/yachts to get to any nation in the Americas.

How does this work? Do you just go to the docks and start asking randos if they’re going to X and also looking for labor?

> Also YPG and some Kurdish militias I think still accepts recruits and they don't require anything past your flight which you could buy on credit.

Not sure I’d recommend this in particular unless you’re really truly willing and ready to die. Sure, any military service where your in a combat role is a significant risk increase, but this feels distinct from joining something like the , backed by a secure NATO-aligned government, with new and top of the line equipment. As FFL, I imagine most any combat you see these days is going to be against insurgents that you have the upper hand on. Whereas going to fight with the YPG you may end up vice versa.

FWIW a friend of a friend did this, and indeed was killed rather soon.

https://hitchwiki.org/en/Hitchhiking_a_boat

I got a 'free' ticket from Seattle to Alaska once by working on a boat :)

>FWIW a friend of a friend did this, and indeed was killed rather soon.

Sorry to hear that. I was in YPG for a few months in 2015. You're right it is dangerous, especially for those who are especially brave or end up in a unit that really embraces 'sehid' (martyr) culture. Rojava also offers some civil volunteer opportunities. Generally if you act like a criminal / psycho / weirdo you get filtered out before you can do much damage. There's no paperwork but I think parts of the middle east operate by the old code of a man being judged by his actions rather than formal paperwork from the state.

I have no personal experience with FFL. I know it's much more selective than YPG. The upside is you get French Citizenship. Therefore there is healthy competition with people from the 3rd world seeking a relatively high wage and EU citizenship.

Interesting, I’ve never heard of this. Has it fallen out of style mostly? I don’t think I’ve ever seen a hitchhiker in my life, mostly only in old media.

Hitching (car) is relatively easy on the west coast and borders on impossible east of the Mississippi. Seattle to Eugene is a pretty easy circuit to hitch.

Seattle->Alaska I got as part of a contract to work on the boat, but it was a flight. The boat was closed circuit route in the sea and a single port (Dutch Harbor).

I managed to hitchhike from the bay area to the Canadian border and back to California. I met lots of really cool people. Contrary to popular belief nowadays most people don't want to murder you.

> Contrary to popular belief nowadays most people don't want to murder you.

Sure, but when I look at things like Nextdoor this is the prevailing attitude regardless of whether it’s true or not.

Definitely. I do feel like this attitude has contributed to the decline in hitchhiking in recent years. Still there are enough decent people to make it viable. I did end up having to wait a while in some areas to get a ride (pro-tip wear sunscreen). Anecdotally every single person who picked me up smoked weed although in CA/OR/WA that might have just been a coincidence.

>Anecdotally every single person who picked me up smoked weed

My experience in hitchhiking was the same ha ha, probably half the drivers were smoking while driving.

As a bored youth a few times I made a sign and stood by the ship canal in Seattle and arranged to hop on boats and help them through the locks.

They’re not. Even by Internet forum standards this is absolutely terrible advice.

It's actually really good advice for those that can make it work. Not everyone is broke just because they're a criminal.

Yeah but a formerly incarcerated person who can afford flights to Micronesia probably is already doing well for themselves.

Or they're simply looking for better opportunities than the limited ones they have now?

This seems like a really silly hill to die on.

I can't say if emigration is a solution here since most developed countries, especially East Asia, automatically denies entry if you are a felon. Seems like there is a limited pool of countries that are willing to look the other way.

We are talking island states, perhaps Thailand, Eastern Europe.

OP said he immigrated to 3 different European countries with a felony record.

East Asia would not be my choice for legal residency as a felon. Although I would note if you're not applying for a visa, they rarely actually have mechanisms to check your criminal record unless someone influential takes a specific liking to you.

As I mentioned there are a number of nations that only require background check from countries you've lived in for the past X years. Therefore if you live somewhere else for X years you can then leapfrog to that country.

What crime were you convicted of?

Does it matter? He served his time and/or paid a fine. If he didn't meet the random friend in HS it would be ridiculous hard to get a job.

No, but it’s still a curiosity. Why are you so defensive?

Why would you want information that has no value in the discussion?

Again, for curiosity.

I worked on Wall St (actually had my own firm), and committed securities violations. I was stone guilty. Paid everyone back, but I had it coming. Lost everything: family, friends, all my considerable possessions, my freedom (fed prison for a couple of years). When I was released, I was destitute and homeless. But I discovered my calling in life: helping my brothers and sisters in and out of prison so that they might have the opportunity to lead a safe and productive life.

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