Pediatric COVID19 Cases in Counties with and Without School Mask Requirements
papers.ssrn.com
papers.ssrn.com
Surprisingly few interventions are so good that you don't need fancy statistics to justify them. Really good treatments (e.g. antibiotics) are so effective as to be obvious to all.
To me the real story is that the CDC, which is supposed to be the public health authority in the US, decided not to use said "fancy statistics" and instead chose to only include data that supported their policies. It's the CDC, they should have access to tons of data. Why such small sample sizes?
You mean like the HCQ cures covid research and studeis in March 2020 that "showed" a 100% cure rate that was pushed hard by Elon Musk and an entire political wing? And so many people still believe it, even on HN, it's crazy.
It's clear that masks are effective at preventing transmission for passing encounters. But I have operated under the assumption that if you are sharing space with someone for 8 hours a day - you're basically still going to spread Covid.
Where schools break down, however, is during lunchtime. Kids - like adults - drop their masks to eat and drink (of course) and carry on as if there is something magical about holding a sandwich in front of their faces. After 30 minutes of much needed socializing, the masks go back on.
To be clear, at my both of my kids' schools in Seattle masks are 100% voluntary, yet there is a culture to wear them (even on the sidewalks while walking home from school - not joking).
It's not like the masked schools are 100% solid, no, so the tests are wobbly to say the least. Yet, my kids don't sit next to every student in the school during lunch, so their exposure is also teeny tiny. But we're anecdotally seeing cases rise at work and school here in Seattle over the past 3 weeks unlike any time I can remember during the past 2 years. Every area is different... It used to be, "Do you know anyone who has caught it?" And now I know several.
I sometimes think the UK has it right. People there have simply accepted it and deal. They have a big spike every 2 months but carry on with packed pubs, covid be damned.
That being said, it's fascinating to see how masking has become almost entirely a cultural phenomenon. I live in the New York City area. In many places here masks are still mandated, while in others masks aren't mandated but masking is nearly universal. I have a friend that lives "upstate" (about 40 miles north of the city). When I visit him, there is nary a mask in site. We hang out in packed bars and restaurants and it is exactly like Covid never existed. Nobody talks about it and nobody is concerned with it. Doubtless there is some level of awareness about the ~1 in 100,000 chance for someone up there to get seriously ill or die, but, unlike New York City, it isn't something that people dwell on or think much about at all. Just another one of the infinitesimally small risks entailed in daily life.
https://www.newsday.com/news/health/coronavirus/covid-19-pos...
Lots of people under 85 survived with oxygen and ventilators in hospitals and ICUs with proper staffing. If no one wore masks the survival rate would have gone down a lot.
A live example of majority healthy younger people dying: https://www.indiaspend.com/covid-19/covid-19-second-wave-dea...
Even with a well-fitting mask, a sick person will saturate a rom with virus particles given enough time. When you account for lousy cloth masks with only 10-20% effectiveness that rapidly drops to effectively zero combined with n95 masks NOT being recommended for children, of course infections would occur. Put them into a little room and in close proximity all day, and we should probably be surprised that the infection rates weren't even higher.
I think I personally knew maybe one person at the very start who probably had it. In the last month or two, I'm not sure I know dozens who have gotten it but it's quite a few.
And with that come consequences. It’s all trade offs.
What's really disgusting is the health "leadership" have shot their wad overplaying COVID. God help us if there ever is a contagion worthy of all the fuss because half the people are going to extend a middle finger no matter how valid. And it's not their fault for feeling that way either.
Credibility - incredibly hard to earn, very easy to piss away. Once pissed away on frivolous shit, it's even harder to earn back.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8486393/
It may be helpful to read them both together. As the authors emphasize, the statistical analysis of these phenomena is quite difficult, but one thing that stuck out to me: there is practically no correlation with population density, before or after controlling for the community vulnerability index.
>however, incorporating a larger sample and longer period showed no significant relationship between mask mandates and case rates.
>Our study demonstrates that observational studies of interventions with small to moderate effect sizes are prone to bias caused by selection and omitted variables. Randomized studies can more reliably inform public health policy.
I think the big story here is that the CDC is promoting bad science, while being treated as the gold standard by "fact checkers".
While there are plenty of studies showing efficacy of masks in indoor environments, we're barely recirculating air in indoor spaces to the point where CO2 levels become a major problem for cognition.
The combination of proper ventilation and air exchange plus masks should be the real winner for prevention of spread.
And protecting the teachers and staff isn't a justified reason either because the vast majority of them are removing the masks when they leave the school also.
It just doesn't seem logical to me.
Unlikely, since it could kill said caregivers.
> And protecting the teachers and staff isn't a justified reason either because the vast majority of them are removing the masks when they leave the school also.
That implies they’re removing their masks and being unsafe. Citation needed.
> School districts that choose to mandate masks are likely to be systematically different from those that do not in multiple, often unobserved, ways.
From my purely anecdotal observations, regions with higher rates of COVID are more likely to adopt masking requirements as a countermeasure. That correlation alone would explain why the benefits of masking become unclear when measured on a large scale.
Places that adopted mask mandates had higher baseline pediatric infection rates which were erased within six weeks.
There is a comment that there's another way to look at the data that might show mask effectiveness, but the relevant analysis wasn't done.
Sorry, kids.
That's what is (still) the most galling about all of this; that any discussion of alternative solutions was immediately shouted down as you being a neanderthal science denier.
A bunch of people espousing "science", yet with no apparent understanding of what science actually means.
No.
1. You're describing a deliberate conspiracy, but providing zero evidence for it. It's not enough to show that the policy will lead to the results you allege (which I do not grant you), but that the policy was deliberately chosen for that reason and not another.
2. From what I've read, the actual result of masking and COVID has been increased behavior problems and acting out in students, not increased compliance.
I am still waiting to feel this fear that the right wing media has hammered into people's heads as a legitimate talking point. I think there are at least two comments here already citing this fear. I don't feel afraid when I have the mask on or when my mask is off and wearing a mask does not change any of my other behavior.
What was scary was in 2020 when I went to the ER with COVID. That was actually scary.
The virus will never go away. There's no reason to live in perpetual fear.
Masks may work, but mask mandates don't work. You can't force people to do something they don't like 24/7. They will take off the mask when you're not looking, or they will wear it in a bad way on purpose. Specially when it comes to kids.
I find this take obnoxious. I don't live in perpetual fear of busses, but I also don't go for a casual twilight stroll in the middle of a bus lane.
I'm not sure what the end-game for COVID is, but I'm exceedingly willing to take some minor precautions while cases and hospitalizations are rising and hundreds of Americans are dying daily.
>I'm not sure what the end-game for COVID is, but I'm exceedingly willing to take some minor precautions while cases and hospitalizations are rising and hundreds of Americans are dying daily.
I find this take obnoxious. I'm not sure what the end-game for COVID is, but I'm exceedingly unwilling to carry out performative charades that have not been scientifically proven to have any impact on my health or the health of my fellow Americans.
Unpopular but necessary laws exist. Also, I’m pretty sure that mask mandates weren’t rejected by a majority of the population, but a vocal minority instead.
Famously alcohol ban didn't work in America. Famously the left argues that laws against drugs don't work. Famously the left says that if you ban abortion it will just go underground.
No, the police should not be, and generally are not, involved in most non-criminal laws.
edit: I guess I do agree with you that they should not be involved. But my point is that laws tend to give police "justification" to use force, whether they're supposed to or not. I am not an anarchist, we do need laws, but I think it's important that we remember who will be enforcing them when new ones are suggested.
Throughout history, there has been no law so vile that police cannot be found who are willing to enforce that law.
"At Least Two Million Children Have Lost a Parent or Grandparent Caregiver to COVID"
https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/at-least-two-mill...
Not necessarily. Immunocompromise, have you heard of it?
That kind of hyperbole serves no one.
I have a 3 year old that is starting preschool in a few months in California. It's not at all clear that mask requirements will be removed for young children here anytime in the next couple of years.
I'm liberal on most issues and supported early covid interventions, but at this point, frankly, I feel that her wellbeing is being sacrificed for the sake of superstitious/quasi-religious beliefs.
It looks like one community in MA reinstated the mask mandate for town-owned buildings some time after the mask mandate had been lifted. That's different than being forced to wear a mask everywhere in public in perpetuity. If a person doesn't like wearing a mask, then they're free to not wear one and free to not go to town-owned buildings.
"Increased risk for PASC (long COVID) was noted in women and those with a history of anxiety disorder."