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Comment by mypastself | Hacker News Reader

When I got myself an espresso machine, I experimented with various settings and types of beans, all kinds of single-origin specialty-store gourmet stuff, 5 or 6 different arabica/robusta ratios…

And I came to the conclusion I liked a specific brand of 100% dark-roasted robusta the most, by far. And I like it black.

Now I have to live with the fact that I’m a philistine, a lover of bad coffee, and an enjoyer of burnt tire smell. But hey, at least I can get the stuff I like on the cheap. More discerning types can have their expensive hipster lemon juice (which I also enjoy, but to a much lesser extent).

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You're no philistine. Your palate is sophisticated. Most people don't even like the taste of black coffee!

You probably also like peated whiskies and high ester spirits.

You might even like this 17yo rum[0]:

> Initial aromas are of petrol, an old machinists shop with vulcanizing shit going on in the background, rubber, phenols, iodine. Gradually fruits emerge, all dark and sullen and sulky. Plums, blackberries, dates, plus sweet caramel and molasses. Some herbs – dill, rosemary. And behind it all coils the familiar scent of fresh hot tar being laid down in the summer sun.

> The taste is very similar. Like the nose, the first notes are of an old bottom-house car repair shop where the oil has soaked into the sand, and rubber tyres and inner tubes are being repaired everywhere, and the occasionally pungent raw petrol aromas makes you feel like you’re passing an oil refinery.

[0] https://thelonecaner.com/r0866/

I've found it's much cheaper to have an unrefined palate. I buy whatever (whole bean) coffee is on sale :D

Same goes for wine.

Buying whole bean is already a minor refinement, you’ve ruled out anything that changes flavor as the grounds are exposed to oxygen. Buying whatever’s on sale also exposes you to a lot of variety, so you probably have much greater recognition of flavor differences regardless of preference. Not challenging your preference, only recognizing that it’s valid!

My taste in wine is similarly lax, but I set a price floor at ~$6-7 to avoid accidentally buying vinegar, and rarely go over ~$15-20 unless there’s a special occasion or specific reason to splurge. My only other criteria, which has never failed me: a pretty label.

First off, what makes you happy is its own reason. I think what makes these communities tick isn't about going for what's fashionable, but enthusiasm however that might take form.

Personally, I started liking really dark roasts in a French Press which pushes it even further. But, I learned that what I was looking for were chocolate and earth notes, and that the roast wasn't an especially good predictor of the intensity of those flavors. I had good coffee gear specialty shops that did flights for purchasing beans, and Starbucks Reserve (with some hits and misses) for getting more variety in flights.

> But, I learned that what I was looking for were chocolate and earth notes, and that the roast wasn't an especially good predictor of the intensity of those flavors.

And in fact, dark roasts are more likely to obscure those flavors.

Too light a roast and you'll get too much floral/grass, too dark and you'll get too much of a burned flavor, for obvious reasons.

The brew method also plays a big part, which is why dark (ish) roasts do better with cold brew than hot brews for pulling out the beans flavors.

I typically do a medium roast with no oily sheen to them and it serves me well. A honey-wash might take more roasting while keeping its flavor, though I haven't figured out why.

Roasting at home also saves a ton of money and the beans can last two years in storage versus a few weeks post-roast.

> I typically do a medium roast with no oily sheen to them and it serves me well.

I thought an oily/shiny appearance of coffee beans was due to them being roasted too long ago and then some of the coffee bean oils "leaking" out of the beans. Is this not the case, i.e. something that might even be controllable with the roasting process, even something desirable in some cases?

I've only been roasting for a few months but the correlation seems to be with how dark you roast not with how long ago the roast happened. I roasted some beans a little over a week ago and they were covered in lots of oil one or two days later.

I don't find much support for it in the coffee snob community, but everyone has their own preferences.

The appearance of oil on the surface comes from roasting beans to the second crack:

https://mtpak.coffee/coffee-roasting-basics-guide-to-first-s...

Oily beans are dark roasted and have a different flavour profile. If you get cheap supermarket espresso beans, they're usually roasted to this point. I think it gives a more consistent product given input variability, varietal differences are no longer so apparent.

Do you have any recommended resources for getting into home roasting? I've always been interested in trying it out, but I don't know where to source green beans without paying more than craft roasted coffee.

Sourcing: Sweet Maria's. Roasting: Follow their suggestions and buy an air popper at Goodwill. If you get a flimsy one, don't roast more than one batch in a row or the machine's innards will melt. The one caveat is you need somewhere outside where nobody will object to acrid smoke.

If you're on the east coast: happymug.

As far as roasting equipment... I actually recommend starting with stovetop/pan roasting. You may struggle more to get an even roast vs buying an appliance or using a popper, but it's cheap, and pan roasting heats via conduction (not convection) which is the de-facto method of most roasteries.

I tried it some time ago with a pound of green beans and a hot-air popcorn popper. Beans were bought somewhere on Amazon and I already had the popper. It was cheaper than buying freshly roasted beans at my local coffeeshop and tasted about the same, and it was a nice experiment, but not something I'd continue with. Not enough benefit for the time spent.

Start with your oven. It's a totally acceptable option just make sure you have good ventilation or your smoke detectors will go crazy.

450 degrees F for 10-12 minutes (you can eyeball the beans will get you started).

I've used a few vendors for the green beans but will recommend https://www.coffeebeancorral.com/ (no affiliation). I usually buy beans in the $40 (shipping) / per 5 lbs.

You'll have to deal with chaff but as you go forward you can get into more elaborate options. And to be honest I end up grinding a not insignificant amount of chaff (it doesn't affect flavor).

Start with your oven. It's a totally acceptable option just make sure you have good ventilation or your smoke detectors will go crazy.

This is bad advice. I really can’t recommend this.

If you’ve ever played with home rosters with larger capacities, you’ll quickly find out just how much smoke gets generated. It’s a sticky and oily smoke too.

You don’t want that in your home.

Either you’re outside, or buy something like a Behmor that has an after burner.

I get very little smoke. I don't roast in my oven anymore but it was never an issue and it's generally recommended as a first attempt.

Do you have a fan forced oven?

Fluid bed roasters dissipate the smoke much faster compared to drum roasters. I used to use a small fluid bed with some concertina tubing and a lot of filters to pipe the smoke outdoors. That tubing got very dirty. I never saw any smoke from it. But you can smell it and it’ll trip your smoke detector.

I’ve never heard of any one recommending the oven as a first attempt. Usually it’s a pop corn maker.

I’ve used several home roasters. Getting one with an afterburner is the way to go unless you have extremely good ventilation or powerful range hood that vents outdoors.

> I’ve never heard of any one recommending the oven as a first attempt

That's extremely surprising given the first handful or so of Google results suggest it (along with the popcorn maker)

Unless you're going for a French roast in a small, unventilated room this is not going to be an issue to worry about.

Yes, you could trigger your smoke alarm but that happens if I cook a steak, too. When I used an oven I think mine went off once or twice from dozens of roasts.

No, you are not. You are just not afraid to go against the majority belief saying "Arabica coffee bean is better", which is purely based on marketing and no objective measure whatsoever.

I actually dislike the Arabica taste when it's overpowering the Robusta taste - it just sour and disagreeable. A blend of about 10%-30% Arabica can be interesting, but I would not touch anything beyond that anymore.

And I also enjoy the 100%-Robusta espressos (like Borbone makes) very much, especially when I'm after a chocolatey type flavour with lots of thick, dark crema.

"Arabica = luxury" vs. "Robusta = low grade" might serve the bottom line of coffee planters and producers, but it's just as bad as saying "wine made with grape type A is worse than wine made with grape type B". It always depends on the source material and the execution.

I'm not one to claim that anything that goes against the grain is good, but in this case I'd say there's 0 reason to chastise your taste. Not only did you do extensive tests to see what exactly you like, you've also managed to find something to appreciate in a largely dismissed thing. In my book, that's a great thing all around - the spirit of discovery mixed with a unique palate.

PS. But I'll keep drinking my hipster juice, simplicity is enough for me.

Hey, I’m happy with my results. Just don’t tell the guys at my local specialty stores…

I notice that medium roast is trendiest among the snobs right now. Some shops won't even serve dark. I understand that dark roasts can verge on one-note, but personally I like coffee to taste like coffee. Often times what the shop serves is so lightly roasted and brewed they practically taste like tea, with no body. It's fruity and acidic, which can be a little more varied, but personally dissatisfying.

For espressos, the full-city / medium-dark roast is maybe my favorite right now, and for other brews anything between a medium that's a little on the dark side and a dark roast. Acidic is fine, but it needs that body and deep flavor.

If you want the “classic coffee” taste, find a blend or single origin with Brazilian beans.

I mostly brew 100% Robusta or a 60/40 blend as well, after some long testing, I just like it better with the machines in my home. And yes, people look at me weirdly even though I am not in the US, and according to the article people should be used to it "here"... What I find weird as well is how the article basically conflates Robusta and Instant Coffee... instant tastes bad because of the way it is produced, not the bean, which should be clear because, well, enough people actually use Robusta in their non-instant coffee recipies.

Perhaps the US larger buying power means you can get a more steady supply of quality robusta. But in other places getting your hands on a quality robusta is fairly hard. It tends to have a single note. They are generally boring on their own if you want a more complex cup. But the better body and crema makes it a good addition to a blend.

You're wrong about the beans themselves not resulting in a bad cup. Go and find a high quality specialty green and roast it e.g a Cup of Excellence winner. A really good green is much more forgiving to roast and a schmuck like me can get a decent cup. A cheaper bean is more difficult. And typically it's easiest to just roast a bit darker past medium to start hitting the cocoa and caramel notes.

I came by my love of robusta in northern Italy / southern Switzerland, where the local roaster made a blend. Most other coffees just lacked the pizazz.

https://www.amazon.com/Caff%C3%A8-Chicco-Tradition-Whole-100...

Absolutely. My particular favorite brand happens to be Italian.

That particular link claims to be 100% Arabica.

And just like that, I find that my love I developed a love for robusta mixed in espresso came from a lie (or lack of reading closely). <sincerely> Thanks for pointing that out. </s>

I got to thinking more about this. Many traditional roasters use robusta in their blends. Chicco d'Oro is a bit cagey about this, but some of their offerings are explicitly robusta blends[0], while others are pure arabica. My impression is that their coffees are arabica/robusta blends, unless they specifically say "arabica". I'm not sure about the particular product in the Amazon listing - it may be mis-labeled. I'd have to see the bag. As I recall, besides adding caffine, robusta improves espresso crema.

[0] https://chiccodoro.com/lang-en/?s=robusta

There is good Robusta to be had and well respected espresso focused blends on occasion have robusta in them for body and crema production. A lot of “high caffeine” coffees are also high robusta content.

Personally I find Malabar and Vietnamese Robusta completely acceptable for espresso.

Good for you. Personally I prefer my coffee to taste of berries or golden raisins or milk chocolate. I'm willing to pay a bit more it. I guess that makes me a hipster.

I kid because I love. There are a lot of excellent arabica beans. Guatemala was my top choice among them…

Guatemalan coffee is one of my faves too. And Colombian.

I have tried a few pure robusta coffees and I always find them lacking. They all have that initial kick, which I may like (or not, some coffee is just terrible), but after that, nothing. All flavors are gone, the rest is like water with some chemical bittering agent added, which I find particularly frustrating.

That's why I always drink my robusta as a blend, Italian style. I still get the initial kick of Robusta and its characteristic bitterness but Arabica is still there to fill in the gaps.

But I admit I didn't try that many pure Robustas, maybe some don't suffer that problem.

My taste is distant from yours, and probably much closer to the “hipster” stereotype. But I say so with no judgment toward you, only toward the one barista who I’ve ever encountered who very vocally embodied the stereotype.

I prefer light roasts… lighter than most available in a grocery store labeled “light roast”. And most of the time I prefer beans fermented with a “natural” or similar process—some or all of the fruit left on the bean as it ferments and dries, often producing fruity flavor notes ranging from subtle to holy shit are there actual blueberries in this!?

And I prefer my coffee with whole milk. Aforementioned barista was offended, persistently, when he failed to persuade me not to stick with my order for one such roast in a latte. I was, frankly, embarrassed for him. Gratefully, I’ve never encountered that sort of snobbery before or since.

Life is too short and too difficult already, ain’t nobody (well one person) got time for that kind of busybody judgement. Enjoy what you enjoy!

(I told the barista that I understood his opinion that the milk would overpower the delicate flavors of the coffee, and that I anticipated it would be my favorite latte ever. It was, and still is.)

Let me throw you a curve ball. For espresso try a 50-50 blend of gourmet and espresso from these chaps [1], it’s amazing. Elgon is also pretty good as a French press coffee. Not affiliated with them, just a fan.

1. https://www.springvalleycoffee.com/orderusa

I'm in the same boat - went to a coffee retailer here that sells mostly to restaurants etc and I did a blind test of all the various brands and blends they had available. I liked 100% Robusta the most and I've been drinking that for years now. Most of other coffee drinkers I know are not too fond of my coffee though.

It sounds like I could be in the same boat. What brand of coffee did you settle on?

Lavazza’s Gusto Forte are the exact beans I’m using at the moment. Its Amazon reviews are very much split: it’s either great, or horrible.

Can to share what brand you like?

Lavazza’s Gusto Forte beans. They seem to be very divisive online…

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