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Comment by VBprogrammer | Hacker News Reader

> 3) Keep records of phone conversations. Date, time, who, resolution. Keep screenshots. Keep emails.

If you take nothing else away from this article this a great point.

I once had an issue where two different electricity companies believed they were supplying our University flat. This turned out to be due to the mess of naming systems involved in Edinburgh flats where two apparently identical flats had meter numbers. Eventually I was able to extract this information from the call handlers but only after a ridiculous number of calls.

This got far better when I started taking names and extension numbers so that I could skip the intro session on each call and speak directly to someone who knew the situation. Taking careful notes of who I spoke to and when.

For about 2 years later I'd still get the hard sell from some debt collectors telling me that I could just pay the £2000 and it would all be over...

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As an attorney, I love when I get a client like this who has tons and tons of records.

I recently had a case where my client, who uses a service dog, was denied a hotel reservation because of the dog. The hotel’s attorney called me and said “I spoke with the other person, she said this never happened, and he never said it was a service animal.” Well, my client, due to his disability, uses a telephone system that records all of his calls. I sent over the recording, and it clearly showed that he identified a service animal, and the person just said “no.” Now that lawyer knows his client’s a liar.

Olympus Telephone Recording Device (TP-8) costs something like $25.

It's simply brilliant. It plugs into any recorder with 3.5mm plug and because it's device you have in your ear it works with any call (normal phone call, WhatsApp whatever). Reporters routinely use it with Olympus voice recorders to make phone interviews.

I highly recommend.

Not your lawyer legal advice:

Make sure you are aware of the relevant laws regarding recording phone conversations.

Having said that, thanks for the equipment tip!

Not looking for legal advice but: how does that work in the context that the other party is recording my call? If I phone a service provider, they tell me calls are recorded for training and monitoring purposes - does this prove they've given consent to both parties recording?

Also did you agree to be recorded without duress, if you have to tall to them and they won't talk without recording?

> If I phone a service provider, they tell me calls are recorded for training and monitoring purposes

Yes. If you're recording a call and it says "Your calls may be recorded" from their end that would be an open and shut argument that they've given permission for you to record the call.

I don’t understand how it works. It only has one jack. What do you plug it into? How do you get any audio into the earphone AND record both sides of the call? Or is it just like any microphone and you have to put the phone on speaker and basically record the ambiant audio?

You plug it into anything that records sound.

The earpiece has a good microphone that captures both sides.

I was skeptical at first, but It just works. It records both sides of conversation well.

Here's a handy 50 state survey of phone recording laws: https://www.justia.com/50-state-surveys/recording-phone-call...

You'd think there would be an app for this, or even built into the ios/android.

Google has actually been fighting call recording apps for years. California is a two-party consent state, but most states are one-party consent (and many countries don't have legal restrictions at all). They're basically enforcing California law globally. It's extremely frustrating to have your phone force-upgraded only to lose important features.

https://www.pcmag.com/news/google-is-banning-call-recording-...

There used to be for Android, but Google has restricted audio routing during calls to prevent two-way recording (i.e. you'll only hear yourself).

iOS used to have this capability for jail-broken devices way back in the day; not sure if it still does.

I'm guessing that the state-level consent laws make it difficult for Apple and Google to bake in phone recording.

That's such a clever way to do that. Amazing in its simplicity.

Can you use it with the phone you're talking on ?

I had a similar situation. My lesson from that was that if I can make "my" problem "their" problem, it will resolve itself quick.

In my case, someone had mistyped a meter number (matching mine) when signing a new contract with a power company. I got a message from my existing provider that I would be transferred there. I called the new company to explain that it was a mistake, and they seemed happy to fix it. I had to jump through some hoops (get a key to the power panel for the building to take a picture of my meter and stuff), but thought it was okay to get it resolved.

But it didn't work, later I got a letter addressed to the apartment, saying I owned the new company money. I gave them a call, and they didn't really want to fix it, just get their money, and make me do additional stuff to prove I hadn't signed with them. It was then I could say something along the line of "We don't have a contract, which is YOUR problem. As far as I'm concerned I'm getting free electricity until you fix this". Of course I could only say this because legally they can't cut the power here during winter.

But when it became their problem of losing money, it was fixed without issues.

npower nearly drove me off the ledge (or more correctly came close to been the final push at what was the worst moment in my life) because they kept fucking up their billing for nearly a year over and over again, the same shit.

In the end I got pissed and kept asking for more senior people til I got to some director of something or other, I explained what had happened, that I had all the evidence (bank statements showing I'd paid, their inability to meter coherently etc) and that my next call was going to be a solicitor and ofgem if it wasn't resolved.

They zeroed the account (which worked in my favour somewhat since I had used some of it, came and got an accurate meter reading and apologised.

Turned out later I was caught up in this shitshow on their side: https://www.ofgem.gov.uk/publications/npower-pay-ps26m-faili...

So yes, keep everything is good advice.

Important stuff I ask via e-mail and refuse to take phone calls for a response. That automatically gives me the needed paper trail.

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