Loot boxes in video games
commonslibrary.parliament.uk
commonslibrary.parliament.uk
This definition is way too broad. It would move ALL RPGs into the category of “gambling”. The definition should be narrowed to only include real money transactions that can be (directly or indirectly) traded for loot boxes in game.
We don’t regulate gambling video games as gambling. The distinction we always make is whether or not real money is involved.
It would be like using "a metal object that can harm people" as a working definition of an assault weapon. If the definition also includes ladders, cars, and push-pins, it's far too broad to be useful in any discussion.
Secondly, that's kind of how UK law works, read up on the knife crime regulation:
https://www.cps.gov.uk/legal-guidance/offensive-weapons-kniv...
It's formulated as, "Carrying an article with a blade or point or an offensive weapon in a public place".
Which of course covers everything from legitimate things to non-legitimate. Which is why the law also allows for a "reasonable excuse" to be carrying such an article.
By the time any regulation is made into legislation it'll iron out the difference or define things in such a way that a reasonable person can tell the difference between an actual game mechanic and a problematic "loot box".
If when my character levels up through gameplay they unlock a new ability, that would also seem to meet this absurdly overbroad definition of a "loot box".
Even if we added the requirement of real money purchase, offering some features of a game only as part of a paid expansion also has nothing to do with "loot boxes".
I’ve managed to avoid most games where they’re these little extra things that are obviously presented as, get this for a random thing, and you can also pay cash to try.
But I’ve recently been playing Gran Turismo 7 where you get these roulette awards, and while i like the rest of the game, i find those awards really irritating. They’re presented as a little spinning wheel of items and it sure looks as if you would have an even chance of winning anything on the board, but it’s weighted so you nearly always get the lowest valued one. This seems deliberately deceptive and scummy, it should at least show the chance of winning any item.
I believe this language isn’t just thinking about games of today, but how games may change to get around this wording.
To phrase this in the most cautious way: The potential to win more money than you started with needs to be considered as a factor in the potential addictiveness or more importantly destructiveness of the entire process.
Diablo 2 for instance, you could use in-game gold to buy Unidentified Items, which when Identified could turn out to be a lot of things. Arguably the same as a loot box mechanic.
The thing that makes Loot Boxes insidious to me isn't just the RNG, or the "purchase", it's the real world money part.
Also, in the instance of Diablo 2 (and many other games), I wouldn't call the Gold earned in-game a "Digital Currency". It's a game currency sure, but I think a game currency needs some way to be expressed as in real world dollars to be considered "Digital Currency"
My example for that is Destiny 2. There is the game currency "glimmer". Then there is the digital currency you can earn through playing "bright dust". Then the premium digital currency you purchase with money "silver". Silver and Bright dust can purchase the same items, so there's more or less a conversion rate between Bright Dust and Real Money even though you can't actually convert it into real money.
So, defining digital currency this way allows Diablo 2 to skirt past the digital currency problem, but it's still "RNG rewards that are earned through playing the game"
The real money blurring line of loot boxes is terrible of course, but the real problems I have are the enforced scarcity, and the fanfare when you open them.
Game devs use all sorts of time gating tricks to make sure you can only earn so many loot boxes through gameplay in a period of time, so if you want more faster you are encouraged to buy with real money. They make sure to give a big reveal when you open a loot box to really sell the idea that opening it is exciting and fun, making you want to do it more.
It's just overall an extremely exploitative and miserable practice. I hate loot boxes.
I think we are partially in disagreement at what constitutes a digital currency, but we might be in agreement just discussing it in different terms.
For me, I think the best analogy for in game currencies is foreign currency. To give an example, I play a FTP game that has an in game currency called Units. You can earn Units playing the game or you can get Units more immediately by purchasing Unit packs for real money. You could liken this to either going to another country and earning their currency by working, or buying their currency through a foreign exchange with your own currency. However, in game currencies can't be converted back to your local currency, so it is a synchronous transaction.
Thanks for the detailed and well expressed reply by the way.
Well, that’s every game ever. The author needs to learn to write and to think critically
Unless you buy FIFA.
It's literally a bunch of whales flushing money down the drain on gambling while viewers watch it (vicarious thrills? not sure tbh as I'm not a gambler).
In some cases the odds for streamers have been rigged by the site owners so that it makes it look like winning big amounts is more likely than the reality.
Their slots/gambling categories are far worse, and there are far worse examples of their biggest stars encouraging real gambling.
You earn channel points every x minutes you're watching the stream. However, paid subscribers earn more channel points at every interval.
Interestingly, gambling with channel points is impossible with an Netherland IP address, but collecting them is fine.
Alcohol is by far the most harmful drug in the world, and yet plenty legal. Twitch betting is hardly hard drugs to be denied everyone because some people have trouble controlling themselves.
They get paid obscene money as well, millions or tens of millions a year to advertise gambling to teenagers.
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> Do I need to buy anything to participate?
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I remember custom skins and new maps meant downloading them for free, made by some enthusiasts.
I remember trying to make my own maps in unreal ed. Servers were free to play on. Or you hosted your own.
Most the games I play are from that era, I own them on gog.com now. Or on an everdrive, or emulated. Though to be fair I barely have ten minutes a day to myself usually!
[0] https://www.reddit.com/r/FIFA/comments/2y5k8l/strawpoll_how_...
Gambling is when you receive money back. What they are describing is a black hole--you put money in and it's gone.
Perhaps you should talk to the largest corporations who are busy polluting the waters and skies? The government knows how to shut them down, where to find them, but instead they are buying stock in those companies.
What a curious coincidence that Valve is a private company.
People complained. Now they have an entirely new system with “blueprints” and a store and I haven’t spent a single cent. To me, the randomness was part of the fun. I’m not going to spend $12 on a virtual pair of wheels.
I’m not sure how much society should be on the hook for people’s bad habits/addictions. If it’s about protecting children, it’s probably better they learn how gambling is a losing game when there isn’t much money on the line rather than when they’re older. For adults with gambling issues it’s hard for me to empathize. How can you not tell how much money you’re losing?
The same logic could be applied to alcohol consumption, but we still bar kids from buying alcohol. I think treating loot boxes as gambling strikes the right balance where they are not banned in general but also not actively being pushed on 12 year olds. The industry likes to claim that the primary driver of their loot box revenue is wealthy, adult "whales" so I don't see why they would be opposed to being classified as 18+ games - unless they're lying that is.
Given the topic at hand, it might be a bit more challenging to prevent children from buying loot boxes, whilst still allowing them to open them - but there is prior examples of a distinction in legality between the two.
Perhaps there could be more limited laws where people below 18 can only spend so much per month, and those above could also potentially have a limit.
It's normal to have a listing of items which you can buy directly. Everything else is just a scam to make you spend more money. Don't fall for it, please.
It seems weird to me that people can’t wrap their around the fact that gambling addiction has pretty much nothing to do with money.. yet justify their own “harmless” gambling actions by saying it isn’t about the money. You aren’t that different from the problem gambler, just be glad you don’t fall into the 1% of people who destroy their lives over gambling.
I like to have sex. I like to play videogames. I'm not addicted to either, because that's simply not what I want to do all day.
I don't play the lottery or do pulltabs. I've watched people spend literally $500 on pulltabs and maybe get $10 or $20 back. Loot boxes were different to me because I was always getting something and I wasn't looking for something specific. It was a "fun" way to spend $5 a month or whatever on the main videogame I was playing at the time. If it was $5 and 90% of the time I'd get literally nothing, I wouldn't have done it.