Sadly with a fridge or a washing machine the efficiency is quite different. Buying a 20+ old washing machine will cost you a lot in electricity and wasted water.
A general rule of thumb: avoid machines with a large display.
The only reviews that matter are the long-term ones, which are rare, and by the time a long time has passed, the original model is no longer made (or worse, a cheaper process is used to make something under the same name).
The only approach I can see is to trust in a brand. But companies making commodified products like household appliances seem happy to have burned all their brand good will in exchange for short term profits, meaning I no longer trust any of them.
I ended up buying an entry level 8 kg Miele - just washes with no smart features & extremely well built. FYI: the 7 kg entry level models now come with a plastic wash tub, you need to buy the 8 kg model for the traditional metal wash tub.
In Sweden, almost all of my electrical bill is heating anyway and water is practically free.
My dishwasher's default program requires 4—5 hours. In the 90s, this was <1h I think?
The same is true for energy efficient washing machines by the way, they often do not reach the temperature a program states and compensate with longer washing times. This may be problematic for hygienic reasons at times but has a noticeable impact on energy use.
> It's not as if the dishwasher hoards very much water for a load.
Apologies if I misread this but dishwashers absolutely _do_ hoard and reuse water. My dishwasher claims to use about 12l of water for a full wash, which really isn't much at all.
And also that using already-hot water gets it closer to the desired temperature at least, meaning less work for the heating element. If you're using a conventional water heater that's just pointlessly keeping your water hot all day, I figure you might as well use it. But of course, there's still a net loss of hot water that must be replaced using energy, so at best.... (you know what's coming)...
It's a wash.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_rBO8neWw04
TLDwatch: eco programs use only one batch of water, others use two and that results in cleaner dishes with the added benefit of a faster program.
I feel like I read that in the manual that comes with my dishwasher. It was worded a bit differently, but it essentially said to use auto mode to get cleaner dishes, not eco which saves money but doesn't clean as well.
https://www.sgu.se/grundvatten/grundvattennivaer/aktuella-gr...
The water savings with eco-programs compared to "normal" programs is in the range of 10 seconds to 1 minute worth of shower time, if I remember correctly. If you want to conserve water use, there are a lot better ways to do so than running a dishwasher in eco mode. (Washing dishes by hand uses more water on average than even an old dishwasher).
Then, the terminology of "waste" is a bit problematic I think. The dishwater will usually output the spent water into some kind of sewer system in most places, and at some point this water usually gets cleaned and put back into circulation pretty much straight away. If not, it usually reaches nature again eventually. It's not like it became so toxic it needs to be stored safely for millennia.
That doesn't mean we shouldn't be mindful, of course, especially when there are current (regional) shortages.
Energy consumption (mainly to heat water) is a different matter. Energy consumption is the real environmental cost, not water consumption, as water is basically renewable, but energy is often produced from non-renewable sources and has secondary effects such as carbon emissions, which in turn effect climate change and in turn regional water availability. But even then again, reducing shower time by a minute, or water temperature, will have a greater impact on energy consumption than running a dishwasher in eco mode (on average).
Our new Samsung has more space, less noise, way less heat generation and power consumption, and has no additional bells and whistles.
Like or not, appliances age, and their performance drops.
Same with dishwashers. With the looming water crisis ahead, every drop of savings is a plus.
Arcelik/Beko group uses 1000LT fresh water per year. The rest is recycled in the plant. This is less than monthly consumption of a single household.
Agreed.
What's worrying though is the amount of water wasted in the delivery network. Really annoying when people trying to save a litre here or there and then millions are just going straight in to the ground. https://www.thameswater.co.uk/about-us/performance/leakage-p...
> Every day we supply 2.6 billion litres of water, but not all of that gets to our customers. At the moment, we leak almost 24% of the water we supply.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bykcfJgye2M
The gist of the story is, because of the unmaintained leaky pipes of a decorative water installation, the city of Marburg wasted 20 million liters per year. A comedy show on state television is making fun of them.
There's a lot to be said with focusing on the right outcomes. We should do everything we can to reduce unnecessary waste and inputs. But, we also need to embrace water reclamation, water recycling. We currently reclaim ~86% of the water in my country. It's not great - but it's a good place to start.
That is far less than I expected. But does it account for the water use in their supply chain? I think that should also be counted.
That said, fridges and washing machines use enormous amounts of power and water, so savings there count for a lot. Far more than in many other household appliances.
Does the cost of the electricity and water an old machine uses equal or exceed the cost of the electricity and water involved in having to make a brand new appliance instead of using an already-made one?
Where exactly that point is, I don't know. I'm generally in favour of repairing old devices, but from what I understand, washing machines have a limited lifespan, and a lot has been improved about their efficiency in the past 20 years.
If we had good sources of energy (nuclear, or solar+batteries) we wouldn't even need to worry about that. Water as well, water simply cannot get "wasted", you just need to clean it, which requires energy.
The fact is, these "modern" "green" appliances are simply worse, sure they use less energy but waste much more time (because colder water -> longer wash cycle). You can get more (useful) energy, but you can never get more time.
The comparison is the water and energy embodied in the solar panel/turbine/inverter.
If you live in a desert, water is relevant
Living on tank, you have free water unless you run out, when it is hideously expensive to truck it in.
But as long as you have your consumption under control, you are your own water company and you may choose not to bother with appliances that focus on water efficiency.
You wash your clothes in grey water?
<laughs in Scottish>