Comment by anigbrowl | Hacker News Reader

Comment by anigbrowl | Hacker News Reader

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The US has more anti-gun-violence activists than anywhere else in the world.

Because other people don't have this problem. And when you get right down to it, they have megaphones and placards, while their opponents have guns. Amazingly, the gun owners have more political power.

My views on gun ownership are complex and don't fit neatly into existing pigeonholes - I'm very much in favor of the right to own weapons, but also in additional social responsibilities that ought to accompany that. I have a lot of sympathy with the gun control crowd even though I disagree with many of their arguments, but the fact is their tactics are simply not working. Unfortunately they don't want to change their approach because they're so locked into the moral dimension of their argument that they're unwilling to consider any other approach. Likewise the 2nd amendment absolutists are so intransigent that they keep retreating to a hardline position of 'shall not be infringed! shall not be infringed!' and then complaining about how unreasonable their opponents are.

The US anti-gun movement seems to be more a part of the culture war than something founded in reality or that could ever lead to a healthy culture around guns, unfortunately. They seem to particularly like pointing to the country where I live (the UK) as proof that their measures work whilst misleading people about what the UK's strict gun laws actually restrict and then pushing for almost the exact opposite. They insist that pooor rural conservatives are deluded if they think guns help with self-defense, but that the powerful, wealthy Hollywood celebrities with the correct political views using their power and wealth to push for gun controls should absolutely get to keep their armed security using utterly nonsensical arguments that are treated as obviously right by the media. (This doubly wouldn't fly in the UK - it's not a legal reason to own or carry a gun and the kinds of guns they use are basically completely outlawed for private individuals.) They're proud of their ignorance of even the most basic aspects of what they want to regulate, and the media supports them in that worldview and spins caring about the actual facts as a sneaky pro-gun trick.

>misleading people about what the UK's strict gun laws actually restrict and then pushing for almost the exact opposite

Can you elaborate on this? Everyone I know has been citing the UK

It basically boils down to everything, but for example the post-Dunblaine total gun ban that US gun control advocates point to was actually a total ban on handgun ownership - when they've been pushing heavily on the idea that rifles are obviously more dangerous than handguns and that it's nuts for them to be less heavily restricted. It's basically only the pro-gun side who seems to argue handguns are more of a problem, even though they do seem to be overall in the US too. (It'd also mean no more private armed security for left-wing Hollywood celebrities, an idea prominent gun control supporters dislike.) They get close sometimes for a moment, for instance the UK does have stricter gun licensing than the US - but we also let 14 year olds get gun licenses to create a culture where guns are seen as tools which can be used by those who show they can be trusted with them, something which would be unthinkable to US gun control supporters. (Until quite recently I don't think there even was a lower age limit.) They also like to point to scary-looking black small-calibre bolt action rifles as examples of guns too dangerous even to be sold to 18 year olds; as far as I can tell that's typically what a 14 year old would use as their first gun both here and in the US. It's outside my and most UK resident's area of personal experience of course, which is one big difference from the US.

Honestly, a lot of the UK stuff seems to almost have more in common with US gun owner culture than their anti-gun campaigners, though obviously organisations like the NRA would not be happy at all with UK levels of gun ownership restrictions. The fact that self-defence is not a valid reason to have a gun or any other weapon here would also be unacceptable to pretty much everyone in the US from what I can tell, not to mention unconstitutional. (This includes stuff like pepper spray.)

Interesting, thank you! I'm confused about the lisence for 14 year olds though. If it's a total gun ban how do they obtain rifles? Are they just licensed to shoot at a range that owns the guns? Also, when you say small caliber, do you mean .22s? I think the most lambasted rifle here is far and away the AR-15 which is (correct me if I'm wrong) .762 or .556.

> I think the most lambasted rifle here is far and away the AR-15 which is (correct me if I'm wrong) .762 or .556.

You're pretty close. Those rounds are measured in millimeters instead of caliber, so they should be 7.62mm (really 7.62x39mm or 7.62x51mm) and 5.56mm. The equivalent in calibers is .30 and .223. Notably, .223 is also an actual round and some rifles can fire either .223 or 5.56 (iirc, the cartridges are the same dimensions, but the pressure ratings are different).

AR-15's are typically chambered in 5.56mm. An AR style rifle chambered in 7.62x51mm would be an AR-10. Although you can get AR platform rifles chambered in pretty much whatever you want, going all the way up to .50 BMG. It's pretty uncommon to see anything like that, though.

Neat, thanks!

It's not actually a total gun ban even though American campaigners like to call it that - rifles are still legal to own and keep at home, with restrictions, and although under-18s can't buy them it's perfectly legal for them to be gifted or lent one so long as they have the appropriate license. (Unlike in the US I think you generally have to be licensed just to own or use a gun, which is why giving licenses to 14 year olds is necessary. Currently, gun-owing adults in the US don't need to get gun licenses for their 14 year olds to take this approach to teaching their kids to respect guns because it's purchasing that's restricted, but if the US introduced UK-style licensing with the existing age limit of 18 or even 21 they wouldn't be able to - and I just don't think there's the political will to give gun licenses to under-18s.) The UK does have a really strict handgun ban though, with even shooting ranges not allowed to own them for use within the range anymore. Also, I really do mean that US gun control campaigners have been fearmongering about bolt-action .22 LR rifles because some of them are black and scary-looking, and as far as I can tell thinking that this is stupid is outside the range of acceptable pro-gun-control viewpoints.

> It'd also mean no more private armed security for left-wing Hollywood celebrities

Where does this strawman come from? Can you imagine the negative publicity if celebrity's bodyguard shot and killed someone? How often do you think celebrities are assaulted by attackers armed with guns?

Celebrities who choose to be in the public eye should not be allowed to be protected by people with firearms that the same celebrities campaign against.

Who specifically is doing this?

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