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Comment by scyzoryk_xyz | Hacker News Reader

I’m an eastern european and this sounds very much like the typical corner-cutting and cheating that we are taught is something to be worth bragging about.

Reminds me of my Polish high school. Not only were people cheating and open about it between each other, teachers were encouraging that if you don’t get caught then it’s not a problem.

It’s a feature of our culture that at the end of the day tires everyone out because you have to be on a constant look out for fuck ups.

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To clarify, I just reviewed some other comments in this thread and it is a relief to say that many others here from eastern europe don't have this experience.

While I still hold the above to be true in a broad sense, I wouldn't want anyone coming away with a negative take. From my own personal experience we have countless extremely skilled developers in our part of the world and I have not witnessed this sort of cheating.

The same people also say a university diploma is just a piece of paper.

Well, my friend, if you actually study instead of cheating, you can learn tons. :)

The meaning is that you can learn to do the job without needing the piece of paper and the loss of sanity and time that goes along with it. There isn't a field where it applies more than in programming.

I know very well what they mean.

But others might miss the meaning if they only went with what you wrote.

In that case, it also means they think degrees are worthless because they assume everyone cheats to get them.

I'm not denying you can get equivalent, even better, knowledge and experience otherwise. One of the best devs I know has a degree in philosophy. However, some of us know what we go to school for and we make it worthwile.

I think the point is more that having the degree doesn't guarantee anything, and that not having a degree is not a barrier. You still have to do an interview with the candidate, and there will be many self-taught devs who will be much better than the people with degrees.

I think people are wrong about what a degree proves.

Sure, it's no 100% guarantee, but it should at least mean you're familiar with the domain enough to find the answers you need.

You said yourself it entails loss of sanity and time - agreed, completing one shows discipline, character, time management skills and enough sanity that you can afford to lose some. Again, it doesn't mean people without a degree don't have these things (self-education can require some of them even more), but that's one way to demonstrate them.

Finally, there's different degrees, mines are from MIMUW so they do prove quite a lot.

This is common in most (if not all) countries. In some countries, though, people do not brag about it, but they pretty much do it. It's like political corruption: it happens in every country, but in some countries it's more obvious than in others.

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