Hacker News Reader

Comment by femiagbabiaka | Hacker News Reader

It is not a far cry, it is in fact almost exactly the same situation, although to my knowledge the crimes of Israel are much more well documented by many sources. Also note that it has taken almost a decade to get to this level of awareness and still to this day Israel critics are called anti-semites and worse. Hopefully more widespread awareness and outrage about the treatment of Muslims in Xinjiang comes soon.

EDIT: Wow, actually more than a decade now since the original BDS statement.

View on HN

Ok, so: Israel has currently ~4500 Palestinians detained = < 0.1% [1]

China has about 1.8m Uygurs in internment camps = 14% [2]

I would call that a far cry.

Also, many other statistics of welfare, e.g. child mortality or GPD/capita in the West Bank and Gaza are about the same or better than in the neighboring countries (Jordan, Egypt). On the other hand, there seems to be quite substantial evidence for mass sterilizations and abortions forced on Uygurs in China. I have never heard of anything like that committed by Israel.

Again, I do believe that there are overreaches and overreactions on the Israeli side to actions by the Palestinians and there are innocent lives lost on both sides. I really hope, that they at some point manage to either live together peacefully or agree on a two state solution.

But there is a very substantial difference between that and the plight of the Uygurs.

[1] https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2022/4/17/infographic-how-man... [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uyghur_genocide#Inside_internm...

Israel has currently ~4500 Palestinians detained = < 0.1% [1]

The entire West Bank and Gaza Strip are effectively a giant detention camp.

"almost exactly the same situation"

Did the Muslims in Xinjiang declare a war against China? did they blow up Chinese buses or shoot thousands of rockets at Chinese civilians ?

uh yeah, kinda. the following is from 2011.

>In recent years, ETIM has set up bases outside China to train terrorists and has dispatched its members to China to plot and execute terrorist acts including bombing buses, cinemas, department stores, markets and hotels. ETIM has also undertaken assassinations and arson attacks and has carried out terrorist attacks against Chinese targets abroad. Among the violent acts committed by ETIM members were the blowing up of the warehouse of the Urumqi Train Station on 23 May 1998, the armed looting of 247,000 RMB Yuan in Urumqi on 4 February 1999, an explosion in Hetian City, Xinjiang, on 25 March 1999 and violent resistance against arrest in Xinhe County, Xinjiang, on 18 June 1999. These incidents resulted in the deaths of 140 people and injuries to 371.

https://www.un.org/securitycouncil/sanctions/1267/aq_sanctio...

Indeed, only the actions of the oppressor are "almost exactly the same".

The Uygars have so far been a lot more peaceful in their oppression.

I also find that Israel is very good in presenting itself in the western MSM, while China seems to have the western MSM against it lately. That makes me also a bit more hesitant to accept the MSM's China critiques.

There have been several (terrorist) attacks against Chinese civilians in Xinjiang over the years. The perpetrators have been lone wolfs, and people part of organized groups. See for example https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xinjiang_conflict

Personally I think that attack on civilians cannot justify the actions of Chinese state or of the Israeli state (massive repression against civilians and continued colonization). And while I condemn both China and Israel for such actions, the two situation are very different.

Yeah, a lot of the issues have to do with the systemic denial of resources and oppression in the region. For the most part like in most of Mainland China, the goal of the CCP has been to convert the local ethnic groups and populations to a singular Han identity. Accompanying this being that they both actively send people from the Mainland over to take over jobs of the local inhabitants it's pretty clear why a lot of this is occurring. A lack of respect for the locals and the systemic destruction of their identity leaving them with nothing. A strategy used by the CCP in China since their great cultural revolution of the early 60s.

Though the CCP claim to not be doing so, it's been a trademark of their party for generations and overall, nothing new. We're just seeing a glimpse of it now, because of the dawn of the internet age.

If you want to see more there are several Chinese state sponsored English media outlets that cover it in great detail, though they like to pretend to have no affiliation. Continued development in the region is expected along with the belt and road initiatives. And a long list of other issues as well.

If you want an unbiased source of information about the ongoing event in China check out. https://www.neican.org

>a lot of the issues have to do with the systemic denial of resources and oppression

How do you explain Chinese Uyghurs committing terrorist acts in the rest of Asia outside of China?

Some Uighur did turn Jihadist. Oppression and denial of resources in an area is perfect for radicalization, including Jihadist radicalization if this area/population is mostly Muslim. But so far, the vast majority of Uighur and Kazakh in China are not Jihadist, not even Islamist.

This is the exact reasoning that Russia is using to justify its invasion of Ukraine.

Israel for all its faults vis-a-vis the Palestinians is not committing ethnic cleansing or anything close to it. People who claim genocide by the Israelis are either anti-semetic or basing their opinions on anti-semitic disinformation.

Reply on news.ycombinator.com