But this is way, way more degradation than actually happens.
> Not to mention that only Tesla's have the super charger network, so it makes even less sense for non-Tesla EV owners.
This isn't true anymore in much of Europe, and in not too long it won't be true anywhere.
> A battery range longer than the average trip distance * 2 is unnecessary.
About half of your trips are longer than average.
Not really, it’s in line with the battery warranty with more or less all EV manufacturers
> This isn't true anymore in much of Europe, and in not too long it won't be true anywhere.
We’ll see.
> About half of your trips are longer than average.
Sure but I’m talking about PHEV, obviously with BEV you have to be conservative.
https://www.geotab.com/blog/ev-battery-health/
Approximately 15% per 6 years, in line with my estimate and the warranty offered by all manufacturers sans Hyundai.
1. It says very little about how the data is collected. Just "Geotab developed the tool based on an analysis of 6,300 fleet and consumer electric vehicles." that's not a lot of transparency.
2. It appears to be based largely on commercial vehicles (although see point 1, it's hard to tell). Consumers drive way less than commercial, which makes analysis by year less than useful.
3. It has a sample size of 6000 vehicles. That might sound like a lot, but since it is broken down into 21 different types of vehicle with about 3 models per type, that's only 100 vehicles per model+year. This would be less of a problem if they disclosed how many vehicles of each type they had, but they don't.
4. They also don't disclose how they have averaged vehicles.
5. The data they have that is easy to cross check (i.e. vs Tesla) shows that their numbers are way different from other sources https://electrek.co/2018/04/14/tesla-battery-degradation-dat... and https://www.evchargerreviews.net/should-you-worry-about-ev-b... that are much more transparent about their data.
All in all, it's very unclear with that source where the data is coming from, how it is analyzed, and it's conclusions differ dramatically from much better analysis.
I’m also involved in the electric Smart community and those batteries have phenomenally low degradation, often being above 92% at 8 years, due to excellent thermal and charge management.
The only manufacturer that seems to put their money where their mouth is in Hyundai with a lifetime length and mileage battery warranty.
Another example: iPhones have a 1-year warranty but usually last much longer than that.
iPhones are irrelevant to the discussion, lol.
> needing any repair
But for the battery, you were talking about when it needed replacement.
No, it's not. That's why some manufacturers offer much longer warranties than others despite having similar reliability numbers. Warranty terms are driven by the business and encompass a lot more than mean time to first failure.
> iPhones are irrelevant to the discussion, lol.
If warranties were a good approximation of how long things last without repair, why would that only apply in the car world?
What's an example of this controlled for the price of the car?
> If warranties were a good approximation of how long things last without repair, why would that only apply in the car world?
Warranties are a good approximation in the context of cars. Virtually all other consumer devices have a 1 year warranty so it's not really a distinguishing feature.
In any case, warranty aside the reason I even brought it up is because many manufacturers warranties imply potential for up to 30% degradation after about 8 years which is why I used the numbers I used (https://www.recurrentauto.com/research/how-long-do-ev-batter...)
Any decision to offer a warranty beyond that is driven by whether it will entice new car buyers to buy the car or to pay more for it.
CCS cars get the benefit of all charging networks combined, including (gradually) Tesla's:
https://electrek.co/2022/05/18/tesla-expands-supercharger-pi...
My BMW i3 battery warranty was 80% remaining capacity after 8 years.
I checked the raw data, and they actually did he 80/20 rule, so when it reported 100% charged in the user interface, the battery was 80% full. Based on this I think it would have lasted a long time (it got totalled by some dofus, entirely unrelated).