The parents who refuse to give their kids smartphones | Hacker News Reader

The parents who refuse to give their kids smartphones

washingtonpost.com

55 pointspseudolus29 comments

When I was a kid (in the 80s-90s), my parents severely limited my television viewing, to the point that I more or less only watched on weekends, and even then not much. They said "You'll thank us later". And you know what? I did.

Pretty sure it's going to be the same story with smartphones.

curious as to why? I have some opinions (i also dislike TV), but interested in your viewpoint

Their reasons, or my reasons for thanking them?

I think their reason was that watching TV is a brainless activity, and they preferred me to use my brain. They were fine with me, say, teaching myself BASIC. It wasn't an aversion to technology in general.

They also carefully monitored the content, there was plenty of stuff they'd rather we didn't see.

Why did I thank them? Because they gave me an appreciation that life is to be lived, not wasted away watching some idiot spouting nonsense that isn't relevant 5 seconds later (if it ever was).

I wasn't the only one in my class like that (though we were a minority). But you could see the difference in those who did and those who didn't - in intelligence, manners, energy levels, and generally being better human beings.

It's possible you're compensating for being denied the enjoyment of highly entertaining 80s and 90s TV. You missed out. Your friends probably talked about things they watched, and you couldn't join in.

Decades later, you sound jaded and bitterly overconfident in the idea that television sucks the life out of people and renders them simple minded lesser humans.

> "Because they gave me an appreciation that life is to be lived"

Denying a kid television doesn't automatically fill the void with quality life experiences. Kids will get bored, and throw a ball against a wall for hours. Nothing was learnt that day. The brain did some low-level hand-eye coordination, that's it.

There's rubbish on TV but also quality shows, including educational shows. Even when confined to entertainment, it's enriching for children to see actors, characters and stories that communicate ideas.

> Your friends probably talked about things they watched, and you couldn't join in.

Is that a situation you have worried about during your own life? It seems unusual for you to push that apparent observation onto someone else.

(you may have a point that some parents can be overly-protective; I'm just not sure that you chose the most effective way to communicate that)

FOMO is a thing. Kids like to join in. I'm not sure what you're finding unusual with what I said. I was responding to someone who claims watching TV makes you a lesser human than if you had been denied the choice to watch TV.

" It's possible you're compensating for being denied the enjoyment of highly entertaining 80s and 90s TV. You missed out. Your friends probably talked about things they watched, and you couldn't join in."

To call propaganda "highly entertaining" is a bit overstreched.

Inspector Gadget was propaganda? Get Smart. The 80s had great TV shows, lots of Goodies like Black Adder. 90s gave us South Park, Simpsons, and many other highly entertaining gems.

When I was a kid (in the 70s-80s) I watched staggering amounts of the most random TV, especially given that was before cable TV (for me, at least), so it was "whatever was on": sitcoms, ads for things I couldn't fathom wanting or needing, etc. It didn't prevent me from reading, or exploring the neighborhood. It doesn't appear to have caused significant damage (though who can tell...) Obviously many apps are worse, in the sense that they try harder to manipulate you, but I'd like to think teens can see through at least some of that still?

Part of me is terrified for and about this upcoming generation. I can't help but wonder how many people's imaginations are being stunted by being on apps constantly, every day. This curiosity is intensified whenever I see parents prop cheap tablets on their kids at restaurants or whatever to keep them quiet.

I'm also terrified about the INSANE amount of data these companies are amassing on people from very young ages based on their usage and activity. Open the Facebook, Twitter, or even LinkedIn apps, then use something like AdGuard as a local VPN to capture packets on their way out. Witness the crazy amount of tracking these apps do. Facebook knowing more about people (their likes, dislikes, medical conditions, real-time location) than governments on extremely intimate levels is a very real possibility, and that's scary.

The other part of me is wondering if I'm just being a curmudgeon, especially since I don't use the popular social media apps (Reddit and HN are the extent of my social media presence).

Before the pandemic, we carefully limited device time. My kids only got an hour and it was easy to keep that limit. There weren't arguments about it.

During the pandemic, the combination of our own struggles to find time to work, our own issues with depression, and the fact that the kids were often trapped inside without access to friends, meant their screen time exploded.

My kids don't have phones but even access to iPads, television connected to Netflix and a PC with Minecraft installed makes me worry. To be sure, there are good things like prodigy for math and i like the problem solving of Minecraft. But, there are so many leaky gaps where other things sneak in.

It's a terrible battle. It feels like there aren't options. Going cold turkey feels like the only workable option but even that sounds incredibly hard. I'm at a complete loss and feel like I'm watching my kids fall prey to some really awful predators that are commonly known as big tech.

I have no problem if they were playing Minecraft, Civ, Sim City or heck even Switch or Zelda.

I have problems with Smartphone Games that are built with 2 min Game play and 1 min of Ads. Or Games that tricks you into micro payments. In a perfectly curated App Store by a company that in the recent years claims to be so righteous. ( Sorry I cant resist )

Broadcast TV have some regulations on content so you know fairly well within certain time zone kids get their TV screen time without much problem. On Youtube and TikTok, even with Kids filter it is still an algorithmic brainwash machine. I rather expose them to Anime.

Oh and the fight against iPad and Gaming usage due to their peer pressure.

>I'm at a complete loss and feel like I'm watching my kids fall prey to some really awful predators that are commonly known as big tech.

In the old days, at least Steve Job's Apple would try to improve or solve real user's problem. Larry page while not exactly a Saint that does no evil or a product person, had the decency to say no to certain things. But both Founders are either gone or no longer in control. Apple and Google are now run by managers who has zero product sensibility.

"If you were a product person at IBM or Xerox, so you make a better copier or computer. So what? When you have monopoly market share, the company's not any more successful.

"So the people that can make the company more successful are sales and marketing people, and they end up running the companies. And the product people get driven out of the decision making forums, and the companies forget what it means to make great products. The product sensibility and the product genius that brought them to that monopolistic position gets rotted out by people running these companies that have no conception of a good product versus a bad product."

It used to be heresy to suggest that Big Tech and Big Pharma were conspiring to make the absolute most of Covid. Now, not so much. I genuinely feel bad for parents who have had to make choices like this, against their will, as life had become unbearably difficult.

One thing that made lockdowns hardest for me was my refusal to give any of my kids (now 1 and 3) any tech as a babysitting device. Once I had made that choice, the sheer inhumanity of what we were being asked to do became apparent.

> “I’ve said, ‘We can’t go any further with your treatment until you get your phone use down,’ and they just don’t come back,” she says.

what? this is really strange in my opinion. sure, phone use can be a problem, but i'd imagine it's symptomatic, rather than the only problem on it's own. essentially turning those kids away seems really unhelpful, dangerous even for a school psychiatrist. your goal is to build trust, isn't it?

No. Phone usage is the cause, not symptom. These teens are there for depression and anxiety caused by their phones. They sit on social media all day long and watch the curated best moments of other peoples lives pass them by, believing that they are missing out in same shape or form.

I try to tell people, dont judge your insides by other peoples outsides. It is so easy to think that you have a shitty life because all you see are the catered and edited and posed "best" moments of someone elses life.

This makes me think that there is still use for a Nokia "dumb" phone. I held on to mine for several years even when everyone else was using iPhones.

Or just stop having a phone on you when you aren't expecting an imminent call. Knowing the correct short sequence of digits shouldnt be a pass to monopolize your time, attention, and priorities.

I wouldn't at this point. I was limited to TV when I was a kid (1 hour per day, in bed by 8 pm). I didn't miss it. Part of why it was easy to wean myself off of broadcast radio, tv and cable so easily - haven't watched an MSM TV since 2010 and got off of broadcast radio in the 1990s.

I was also never allowed anything but G movies until I was 13 when my father "escorted" me to my first PG film. I didn't see an R film until my senior year of high school.

My mother also didn't allow comic books so I haven't missed the movies from Marvel or DC either nor have I ever cared about their woke destruction - never was invested and still am not.

Lately I've been considering going back to a "dumb phone" because I really don't use 90% of it - not beyond being a phone and MP3 player. I don't do social media (no FB, Twitter, et al.) because they always seemed as stupid as MSM TV only far worse.

My friend is having his first kid and it will be zero internet, zero smart phones, zero MSM TV or cable he tells me. His wife is 100% in agreement.

Huberman’s quip on the topic of dopamine based reward systems being absolutely demolished by poorly moderated screen time in kids was conviction alone for me to reduce, randomize and limit the amount for my children.

Another thing to note is the irony of tech workers actively frightened by their own creations affecting their children. The problem is like a collective Frankenstein in a lot of ways.

who is huberman? any links on that dopamine thing? cannot google it for some reason.

tia

https://hubermanlab.com/controlling-your-dopamine-for-motiva...

>irony of tech workers frightened by their own creations affecting their children

I would argue it is not. It is a fairly accurate representation of current Tech industry as whole. Extreme Hypocrisy.

I’m a new parent and will be doing this. The past year we have made sure the kid doesn’t get any screen time and it’s been pretty easy. I like the mental break it forces on me from being in front of a computer all day.

There will be two kinds of people in the future - the phone addicted, short attention span low level workers who we need, trained on microtransactions so their employment can be easily gamified, and then the people who own the companies and can read a whole actual book.

If I understand the gist of this article correctly, they subtly blame parents for causing these kids inconvenience/social harm, because they would not let them use the smartphones? When I read this article, one thought is going through my head: who paid for this to be written? Who benefits from this article to be published in the Washington Post?

Seems like maybe you would want to teach kids about safe smartphone use instead of abstinence only

not every parent has the time or experience to do that. banning smartphones is easier than constantly supervising their use. to much supervising may also breed resentment from the kids, especially when they get older. i feel it's better to first deny them and later give them the phone on trust. like they are old enough to handle a phone now. that should lead to a better relationship with the kids

This. It's better to gradually introduce them instead of fully abstaining. They'll need them at some point, as our society is becoming increasingly reliant on it, and when you suddently let them do whatever without moderation, the same problems will occur.

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