This doesn't reflect my lived experience in SV. People I know who learned leetcode skills and got into big companies usually work less than people who passed more practical tests and get into smaller companies.
I'd say big companies are trying to hire employees who are a "good" mix of:
1. Smart
2. Conscientious / willing to work hard on the right things
3. Existing CS knowledge you know well enough to explain and apply.
For some vague handwavy definition of "good"
(2) is probably worth expanding a bit. Many people are willing to work very hard on the wrong thing, this extends to engineering. As an example, a common failure pattern you might see is someone constantly struggling with how React works and what they really need to do is sit down and read the ~15 pages of documentation. But they never do, and just keep putting in 10 hour days with subpar output.
I've met some legit geniuses (think Putnam winner) for whom basically no studying was required to pass these interviews. Companies paying top dollar are happy to have them. For people like who are less smart and need to dedicate ~100-200 hours of focused studying and practice, companies paying top dollar are happy to take our mix of smarts and willingness to do that work. But once in the company I haven't noticed any expectation to "devote my life" to it.
I don’t know where people get this idea. Leetcode used to test programming proficiency
I feel the only reason companies continue to take leetcode to absurd levels is because (a) they think harder questions would get them better engineers and (b) other companies are doing it
The discussion is exactly this, that leetcode is used to test programming proficiency, but it's an inadequate bar.
The parent is postulating that it's a lie; that actually leetcode tests for malleability, and we're getting bent out of shape because we think it's a poor test of coding ability.
However it might be a good test of malleability, and that might actually be it's intended purpose, but that's not communicated.
200 person tech companies are doing the same.
I guess that really depends on the language. IMHO, if you can solve a reasonably complex problem using a language, you know that language.
Find the (gotcha) in this string and emit len(gotcha) ... Now do it computationally efficiently (or be able to explain tradeoffs to other resources).
Go makes normal string operations tricky due to rune being an alias for int32, ranging a string gives []byte indexes ...
But manipulating sequences comes up a lot in many contexts. Usually it's sequences of more complex things: instructions, packets, files, polygons. It's hard to assign tests directly on those, because you have to explain the objects themselves first. So it's a reasonable shortcut to test ability to manipulate sequences of characters.
LeetCode problems are solved with under 50 lines of code, using textbook models.
So I don't think these interviews evaluate the candidate's ability to solve complex and abstract problems. They seem to evaluate the candidate's ability to grind contrived sophomore-level computer science homework. Experience solving the real-life version of the problem rather than the academic one is unwanted.
There is quite a world outside these mammoths Google/Facebook/Amazon/(MS, depending on how their IBMization is going these days) and their minions/wannabes. Personally I would not work for any of these even if they paid me in gold bars.
Sounds like they are trying to breed a cult...
Lots of programmers think they are 10x but few are. Even my best senior engineers took 2-3 months to settle in and contribute more than they take and juniors are bigger gamble.
The best proxy now is will you spend 1 hour on a simple set of tests, if not you are not serious or are shopping for counteroffers.
I worked across a couple big tech companies mentioned in the thread, and I've met maybe a couple coworkers at most who "devoted their life to the company". And that's across almost a 3-digit number of people i worked with in some capacity over the years. People take vacations often, they work 40 hours a week or less on average (over the year).
One big thing about most teams at big tech companies (probably sans Amazon, from what i hear, haven't worked there myself) is the work/life balance being an important priority. We had a manager giving stern talks to the few teammates who would reply to work emails on their days off ("you left for a week of vacation in Hawaii, why are you replying to work emails or even brought your work laptop with you? Please stop doing that and enjoy your vacation, everything will be totally fine when you come back.").
I don't even care to defend any company, that's their problem. But seeing the whole "cultism" and "expected to dedicate your life to the employer" accusations just make me feel like I am reading some alternate timeline fiction story.
They've decided things like ability to devote time to a meaningless skill that is required to get the job, attention to detail, and problem solving skills are what is required to become a great engineer and see that letcode is a good way to test for those things at massive scale.
I mean, look, it sucks when you can't get a job. I've been there (when I briefly tried to escape programming for a different metier) and it's awful. But pretending that the entire outside world is a dark mass of malevolent forces arrayed against you.. well, it may be psychically necessary in some Freudian, Jungian sentence, to prevent ego death or whatever, but in the long run it's neither (a) true (obviously), and (b) nor is it going to do your mind and mindset any good.
Maybe you can post this in the endless Russia threads posted here, which seem to have crowded out the endless China threads.
I guess what you're saying is that apprehension about the motives of of corporate executives is so irrational, it's akin to a psychological problem.
No, that wasn't what I was saying there, but coincidentally, yes, I would agree with that statement. For one, 'corporate' is a phenomenally lazy word used to invoke some mental image of besuited sociopathy, from a million children's movies and internet debates. In the real world, 'corporate executives' - human beings, mothers and fathers, working in management careers at (large) companies - are humans doing jobs, like any other humans doing jobs.
I've been involved (as an engineer) in C-level meetings with people like that, as well as worked alongside them in the same teams, and my experience - thoroughly unsurprisingly given what I said above - is that they are pretty ordinary human beings on the whole. I'm sure there are differences between companies in terms of their cultures or values, but that's company-specific and not discipline-specific or seniority-specific.
I get that your experience is that these are people who mete out decisions from on high, which affect you in sometimes-negative and always-unforeseen ways, and that makes you feel like a mediaeval peasant might have felt towards his feudal liege. And maybe it's helpful, from a cathartic standpoint, like I said above, to picture them as evil baddies from kids' movies. But no, the reality is more banal.
(Incidentally, I think those who worship company CEOs - and suchlike - are equally stupid, from the Elon bros to the HackerNews types who recite stories about startup founders as though they were superheroes. These people underestimate the role of chance and – in a way, very similarly to you – overattribute the differences between execs/founders vs regular workers to a proportionate difference in their inner essence [in their case, they think intelligence & industry; in your case, you think amorality]. Both are fantasies.)