Comment by javajosh | Hacker News Reader

Comment by javajosh | Hacker News Reader

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>So much for innocent until proven guilty.

I'm not sure how long it has been this way, but "innocent until proven guilty" isn't true in most of the country. If you are arrested, you will spend at least a day in jail if you can make bail. If not, you will spend weeks or months in jail prior to your first hearing. Often, that hearing will just be to setup another hearing, months down the line. So, you could be in jail a very long time without ever having a hearing at all, and without the state proving your guilt.

Even if you are rich and innocent and lucky, then you will spend a day in jail, and spend thousands on bail and lawyers, and if found innocent you will still have all of it on your record, lost all of that money, a day of your life, the abuse of the police officer and jailors, and there are many situations where answering "yes" to "have you ever been arrested" will disqualify you.

So, yeah, innocent until proven guilty is not a thing in the US. I fear that people might read this and think it's hyberbole, or that I'm part of some right-wing conspiracy theorist thing. It's not, I'm not. If you know a LEO, ask them. A LEO in the US is judge, jury and executioner, and they are quite happy for this to be the case. It means they get to do whatever they want. It is remarkable that Chauvin got convicted for murdering George Floyd on camera! That's why I think the BLM protests aren't quite right - should be CLM, civilians lives matter, because it's not about race, it's about giving low-to-average intelligence people absolute power over everyone around them.

I've been to jail for awhile, it really is like this. On top of that, you are told almost nothing about how to make bail, what's going on, etc, and also congratulations, now everyone looks down on you even if you are proven innocent, especially the people inside the system (judges, lawyers, etc.)

Indeed. "Well, I would never have been so stupid as to get arrested!" is the attitude. It's a hueristic based on false assumptions about the system set mainly by the media, which is entirely, supremely false. It would be amazing for a story, any story, to take place in a realistic justice system where the meat grinder is on glorious display. (Public defenders would be good people to interview on this; maybe some ex-LEOs disenchanted with the system)

> Even if you are rich and innocent and lucky, then you will spend a day in jail, and spend thousands on bail and lawyers, and if found innocent you will still have all of it on your record, lost all of that money

Not quite.

If rich you get all your bail money back. If poor you do a bail bond and dont get the deposit for the bond back. Or cant even afford that and stay in jail. (The effects compound because its often not the first time)

If rich, an arrest record means nothing. If rich enough, an indictment or being found guilty means nothing because you don't need employment.

And thats before we talk about fighting the case. Or making the investigation harder.

Its a completely parallel society because the consequences are so different.

>If rich you get all your bail money back.

That is not true. In most places you are NOT ALLOWED to post cash bail, you have to get a bond because it has the effect of outsourcing police-work. No, I'm not joking.

> Even if you are rich and innocent and lucky, then you will spend a day in jail, and spend thousands on bail and lawyers, and if found innocent you will still have all of it on your record, lost all of that money, a day of your life, the abuse of the police officer and jailors, and there are many situations where answering "yes" to "have you ever been arrested" will disqualify you.

If you have your arrest records expunged you are expected to answer "no" to the "have you ever been arrested" question when asked by an employer or potential employer. It's a stupid system. In at least a few states, they're not even supposed to ask, because it's such a dumb question.

Emanuel Fair spent 9 years in jail. He was acquitted.

https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/law-justice/jailed...

The question is never "have you been arrested." It is, always, "have you ever been convicted"

I've definitely seen "Have you ever been arrested and held for >24 hours?".

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