This Gas would have stayed in the ground if it wasn’t for Bitcoin
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Next time someone says something like this think about what would you think if someone suggested: you walk to the store instead of driving (5 miles? No worries, it' s healthy and good for the environment), you can only use 1 gallon of water per day, use daylight not electricity, eat only what you can grow yourself, stop using any type of plastic, computers (and datacenters) use a lot of energy - stop using them, alcohol? total waste of resources to produce and distribute.
This could go on. There are reasonably good arguments to be made for a lot of things.
I think the misalignment here is that the bitcoin mining operation and what one person can do are not at all comparable, and what you're proposing we do would not really do much as the larger scale operations far exceed what even the entire community of HN would be able to accomplish.
If an industry is using a large part of a finite resource, that doesn’t really advance humanity all that much, perhaps it shouldn’t get so much of that finite resource. Where that cutoff is, is anyone’s guess, but it should be an option. I’d say the same of any industry using a finite resource. Could there be worse offenders than mining? Certainly, but afaik, they are furthering human-kind.
An imaginary currency that can’t be realistically spent like a currency and isn’t even running at planet-wide-scale (aka, 100% of every monetary transaction) yet but using a disproportionate amount of energy … yeah, that should be regulated.
> industry is using a large part of a finite resource All resources are finite. We are using large part of oil for example for just driving around. You don't get to decide how the resources are used
> that doesn’t really advance humanity all that much That's some pretentious BS and the high horse appears again. Why do you think you get to decide this without a massive restructuring of how ALL resources are managed? What makes you think you have this right?
> An imaginary currency I have shocking news for you. All currencies are imaginary. They're made up. They're something people made up. Also, most money are electronic. Did you ever do the math to see how much energy the financial sector is consuming?
> isn’t even running at planet-wide-scale (aka, 100% of every monetary transaction) yet It doesn't have to. I can make up my own currency and use copious amounts of energy to mine it. As long as I pay the bill who are you to tell me I cannot invent my own money?
> regulated Oh yeah. The answer to everything. Regulation! Setting aside the technicalities how would you prevent me from consuming electricity and paying for it?
I think I can answer this pretty simply. The house is the world, and the home owners are everyone who lives in it. We vote people to make hard decisions so we can go about making our imaginary currencies or drive around or whatever.
So, no, I (personally) don't get to make these kinds of decisions. But I could, theoretically, run for office to get to do so. That reality isn't a real reality for me (personally) because I can't vote or run for office where I currently live because I'm just a resident and not a citizen. However, I can still run for office and vote in my country of citizenship.
But anyway,
> As long as I pay the bill who are you to tell me I cannot invent my own money?
Just because you pay the bills, it doesn't give you the right to do whatever you want. You can't print USD or EUR in your back yard just because you bought the machinery and pay the power bill. You can't just light a bonfire in an urban backyard because you bought the wood, or build an extension to your house. There are codes, regulations, laws, etc. These make up a civilization and society. So yes, there are people on this planet who can tell you "cannot invent your own money with your electricity." I, personally, am not one of them. I don't understand why I (personally) am a part of this conversation. But here we are...
Hahahaha. Have you ever been part of a homeowners association? It's a clusterfuck. People constantly on power trips for the most miniscule and ridiculous things. I would not be surprised if somewhere somebody is trying to ban their neighbor from mining crypto in their garage
> But I could, theoretically, run for office to get to do so
I mean... go ahead. This is how it's supposed to work. Do try and formalize this and make sure this is what people want.
> Just because you pay the bills, it doesn't give you the right to do whatever you want.
That's exactly what it means. If my activities are aligned with the laws of place my house is in I can do whatever the fuck I want.
> You can't print USD or EUR in your back yard just because you bought the machinery and pay the power bill.
The US government want a word with you. You'll be shocked to hear that most money created is created out of thin air with no backing whatsoever. Also, this may come as a shock but I can definitely print money in my back yard as long as I don't try to pass them as real money or trick people into exchanging things for the said money. Printing stuff is rad.
> I don't understand why I (personally) am a part of this conversation. But here we are...
The positive spin: you are having this conversation because you've encountered someone you don't agree with and both people are open to learning/teaching something. It's a rare sighting in today's world to have people that don't agree have a somewhat civil back and forth and share their point of view The negative spin: you are having this conversation because you want to be right.
I moved from the US to avoid that. :)
> I can definitely print money in my back yard as long as I don't try to pass them as real money or trick people into exchanging things for the said money.
I'm pretty sure they'll nail you for something... probably with the words "intent' in them. ;)
> If my activities are aligned with the laws of place my house is in I can do whatever the fuck I want.
That's what I was referring to, changing the laws.
> you are having this conversation because you've encountered someone you don't agree with and both people are open to learning/teaching something. It's a rare sighting in today's world to have people that don't agree have a somewhat civil back and forth and share their point of view The negative spin: you are having this conversation because you want to be right.
Maybe I am wrong, or right, I'm just enjoying the discourse. I also like to play Devil's Advocate sometimes.
I don't mind people/regulators thinking/doing something if there is a though process and procedure that is established vs the pitchfork approach.
Try quantifying it. This vs the carbon footprint of one individual.
I don’t really know what point you’re trying to make beyond “don’t tell me what to do” or maybe “but you do other things that cause carbon emissions so how can this be bad?”
> People have quantified it. About 0.55% of global energy consumption for almost no meaningful benefit.
I hate weasel words. Almost, Meaningful. Who gets to decide what is meaningful? Or, if you take the Thanos approach: Most people live a meaningless life and consume a boatload of resources. Should we get rid of them? What's meaningless you ask? It's whatever I decide it is. It has a fluid definition.