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Comment by treyfitty | Hacker News Reader

Carton design, or not, I don't buy orange juice anymore because I don't know what "Made from Real Oranges*" means anymore. Over time, I came to learn that straightforward claims like these are engineered to deceive. Tropicana could use 100% real oranges, and I still wouldn't believe them.

I could inspect the ingredients, and even then, it's dubious- companies have found ways to circumvent the rules there too. Instead of all this mental gymnastics I have to do at the grocery store, I just decided to abandon the product completely.

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> I don't buy orange juice anymore because I don't know what "Made from Real Oranges*" means anymore.

Don't be silly --- it means you are buying juice from oranges that has been stripped of all flavor, stored in tankers for a year or two, and then reconstituted by adding "flavor packs" built by recombining the chemicals found in different oranges. Pretending this isn't clear to consumers is just anti-progress.

Along those lines, the book "Squeezed" is pretty good, and details the argument of the Tropicana lawyers who actually make this argument. Here's a New Yorker article about it: https://www.newyorker.com/books/page-turner/ask-an-academic-....

I'm not sure if you're being sarcastic, but I really don't think this is "clear to consumers".

They're definitely being sarcastic

SRSLY?

;-)

I'm being sarcastic that it is "clear", and being genuine when I say that orange juice industry lawyers argue that consumers are not confused about what "Not From Concentrate" means despite such contortions.

I do highly recommend Hamilton's Squeezed book for a more detailed expose. It's available from libraries, both physical and online. It's not for everyone, but if you care a lot about food regulation and the way that producers get around the law to deceive consumers, it's great.

Juice in general just seems terribly unhealthy in 2022. I enjoy it as a treat now and again but think of it more like a dessert rather than a part of my daily breakfast routine.

Non-ironically, the only time I drink Tropicana, or any fruit juice anymore is when I buy it at McDonald's

It's just one of those weird things that people, especially Americans, have been conditioned to think is wholesome.

After some time not drinking it, orange juice is almost sickeningly sweet to me.

traditionally yeah (my dad has orange juice every morning) but I don't think it's seen that way anymore for younger generations for most people

It seemed terribly unhealthy back in 2012 too. You get all the sugar and none of the fiber. But many people have this weird idea about "natural" being healthy or that being derived from something healthy means it's still healthy. If we called them processed or refined fruit drinks, I'd bet you'd find people become averse to fruit juice.

yeah I was thinking more like 1982

I went through a phase where I was buying oranges and preparing fresh juice everyday at home. About a month or so into it, I bought packaged juice - it tasted like crap. My brain had gotten used to the real stuff and the difference was night and day. Eventually my laziness got better of me and I got tired of buying and carrying loads of oranges but that experience completely turned me off from packaged juice.

I don't know the product at all, but given the phrase "no pulp" on the packaging I'm sure it's from concentrate; mass produced orange juice, reduced and put into these 1000 liter pallet containers and shipped from who knows where, then rehydrated and packaged.

I mean we have our apple juice like that; it's cheap and a crowd pleaser, but it's not the same as fresh juice.

Economies of scale though. I wouldn't be surprised if concentrate is 100x as efficient in transport than the equivalent in juice oranges would be.

On the plus side, increasing awareness of the problem has made it more common to see actual fresh orange juice squeezed onsite at stores. And it's delicious.

I would be suspicious of any orange juice where the company feels the need to stipulate "real orange juice". What the heck else would it be made of?

Reminds me of "ice cream" which, in a lot of cases, is not. Mixed in the ice cream section next to identical looking cartons of different flavors Breuer's is a big culprit) are things that say "whipped dairy dessert" in the place that others say "ice cream".

One common-ish case would be from concentrate, since ostensibly it is just the water removed and then re added. However, you're at that point substituting the natural water for whatever is at the bottling source.

This does lead me to an interesting question, that being whether one could make orange juice from frozen concentrate that is 'better' than store bought and reconstituted at a factory

I wonder if the same health equivalency applies to jam and it’s analogues. There’s double-fruit jam that doesn’t identify as jam, but as a fruit spread.

It seems like a healthier choice, due to higher bulk of fruit purée versus standard jam on toast (which I assume has more sugar).

There are surprisingly strict rules about ice cream terminology pertaining to ingredient ratios. Is it ice cream? Ice milk? Custard? Etc. An ice cream-like product that is not actually "ice cream" is not necessarily inferior.

With orange juice... not sure. There's long been the distinction between "from concentrate" and "not from concentrate", but both were still considered actual orange.

I imagine this was in response to a mid to late 20th century processed foods culture where things like tang and sunny d were widespread. Lots of “Orange Drink” I remember in the wire Frank sobotka talked about all the Tang he drank because it’s “what the astronauts drank”.

Ah, yes. I remember my mom brought home Tang one time from the supermarket. We love our mom, but to use the phrase parents use with their kids, we told her "we are very disappointed in you. We expect you to make better choices".

> What the heck else would it be made of?

In my country, there are also concentrated 'orange squash' drinks which have some real fruit, and also some flavouring and sweeteners.

They taste different to pure orange juice, they're substantially cheaper and they have very low sugar/calorie content.

Sounds like the Americans' "Sunny Delight", a childhood staple but also kind of.. not quite juice.

At least some products can not legally be called something they're not, like "sandwich slices" or "singles" instead of "cheese".

Tang, Sunny D, and Kool-aid basically ruined the entire juice industry by popularizing adding artificial flavor and coloring to sugar water. IMO they shouldn't even be allowed to show images of fruit in their packaging/marketing, shouldn't be able to market to kids, and they should have a surgeon general's warning about obesity akin to cigarette packaging and cancer.

I've accidentally bought what I thought was fruit juice more than one time, and learned my lesson about reading the label. Many people might not ever bother.

>I would be suspicious of any orange juice where the company feels the need to stipulate "real orange juice". What the heck else would it be made of?

You're right to be suspicious; most juices are not just "freshly squeezed" from a fruit - they're processed.

Part of the "process" is to actually extract the sweetest part of the juice and leave the rest behind (so way more sugary than "natural") and some will actually contain some other forms of filler (like non-orange based oils).

It's a lot like McNuggets or Subway chicken sandwiches - they're made "from real chicken" but with all of added the salt and fillers, you end up wondering exactly how much of it is actual chicken.

One of the best way to evaluate "real juice" is by how long it'll last before it expires (either shelf life or after opening) - more than a few days will indicate there's extra preservatives, etc. in it.

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