Steve Yegge: Follow Up to His Accidentally Public Rant

I hate fear-driven cultures where presentations/meetings/casual talk with the CEO are treated as a gladiator match. In addition to Bezos, of course Jobs and (from what I read) Gates created such cultures. Another interesting, lesser known example was Col. Robert R.MacCormick, the editor for the Chicago Tribune for long years. He was described as "remote, coldly aloof, ruthless aristocrat, living in lonely magnificence, disdaining the common people... an exceptional man, a lone wolf whose strength and courage could be looked up to, but at the same time had to be feared; an eccentric, misanthropic genius whose haughty bearing, cold eye and steely reserve made it impossible to like or trust him." [Interesting anecdote: He had all the walls of his penthouse office at the Tribune covered with dark wood, including the door, so that after your meeting ended, you would have great difficulty finding the door to get back out, suffering under his humiliating gaze.]

That doesn't mean that such draconian cultures are unsuccessful, just the opposite. The problem is, success becomes very much dependent on the quality of the leader(s), e.g. compare Libya and China; the performance becomes very brittle.

The main paradox of humanity, of course, is why people continuously create such fear-driven, hero-worshiping hierarchies, although it causes great personal stress to them. Belief in a strong, super-genius, infallible leader that we can never equal and/or please, may be ingrained in our brains, be it religion or, as in this case, CEO worship.

I worked at google for a couple months this year. My experience of their so-called open corporate culture was a bizarre mix of elements from William Gibson's _The Belonging Kind_ and Robot Chicken's _Our Newest Member, Calvin_. It was one of the loneliest and depressing experiences of my adult life (but with really good food).

That said, it turned out that way because I was stupid and naive and let myself get flung into the russian roulette of their blind allocation process. This put me on a team doing work for which I had no real relevant experience and working under a manager who promptly forgot I existed for 3 months.

I'd call my experience an outlier, and it all turned out well in the end when I fled the place for a better offer doing work far more relevant to my previous job experience, except that I keep running into others that had almost exactly the same thing happen to them.

Amidst the hooplah of Larry and Sergei's Montessori for overgrown gifted kids, there's something very rotten, elitist, and ineffective going on at the googleplex and the initial frustration in Steve's rant hinted to me that deep down he knows this too. Perhaps I'm wrong. But I had such high hopes for the place and they were utterly dashed on the rocks.

The issue of "so smart he needs a challenge so leave something for him to find" may overlap with "so narcissistic he needs something to smack you with so make a deliberate 'mistake' for him to find". I've found this quite effective; some people just need to find _something_ wrong with your idea/presentation/execution, so when they're going to review it, don't polish it to perfection - leave an error somewhere; you know what the mistake is, you know what the solution is, you'll take care of it right after it's noticed, and you'll give him _something_ to criticize so he doesn't have to invent some off-the-wall delusion which you must now accommodate.

I'm not equating smart with narcissistic, just noting similar behavior with similar ways to mitigate damage vectors.

His description of presentations to Bezos reminds the infamous BillG reviews

http://www.joelonsoftware.com/items/2006/06/16.html

    The last step before you’re ready to present to 
    him is this: Delete every third paragraph.

This must have been excruciatingly difficult for Yegge :-)

Is it me or does this read like a big ass-kissing of Bezos after he tore him apart in the accidentally leaked memo? Not saying it isnt true but...

I'm curious how these "Jeff Presentations" go.

Powerpoint presentations are banned, instead you have to write your arguments as an essay.

So is the meeting essentially Bezos reading your writing, with the rest of the room waiting for any indication about the emperor's mood?

Or does the presenter read from the prose as a script?

Can any Amazon-ers give any insight?

Although it was a great read, to me it lacked a kind of authenticity.

The first Yegge post felt real, authentic, natural and fully charged. This second one although better formatted and edited, lacked something. It just seemed obigatory and bland.

It is rather amazing that you can feel emotions through words.

Or am I the only one thinking this way?

My apologies for straying near politics but i think Yegge's just defined the best characterization of the 1% :P

> In some sense you wouldn’t even be human anymore. People like Jeff are better regarded as hyper-intelligent aliens with a tangential interest in human affairs.

The difference between this description and Yegge's later description of Bezos as being like the Dread Pirate Roberts of Princess Bride fame, is that Roberts is a clever human putting on a very clever show to develop a reputation which does work for Roberts.

Bezos on the other hand, by all accounts, actually does make people walk the plank. Whether he does it because he's a super-human alien intellect, or some other reason, doesn't change the fact that he's built up a climate of fear around him. If anything, describing him as a super-human alien disturbs me more than if he were acting out of the same motivation as the Dread Pirate Roberts.

Steve, if you are reading this, any chance you can throw some light on the core skills a generalist engineer ought to know?

By the way, the most important part of the post is where he says that Google is following through on the problems he pointed out. I'd be curious to see what (if) will come out of this - if they will expose their internal services to third parties, that will be great news.

Steve Yegge just might help g+ steal some market share from facebook yet. Every time he releases something like this on g+ I end up spending a few minutes on the site that I would not have otherwise.

Actually, that is pretty close to how you should talk to -anyone- who likes thinking and does it well. If they have a question, they will ask it. You don't need to fill in every gap. (You need to KNOW it, but you don't need to say it.)

I would leave out the 'delete every third paragraph' bit, though. Or change it to 'delete anything that can be inferred.'

So he validates the post http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=465882 posted here 3 years ago.

Snapshot of the blog http://web.archive.org/web/20090211060734/http://blog.layer8...

Contrary to what he wrote here, Steve actually has ragged on Amazon in the past, in particular in "Have You Ever Legalized Marijuana?" -- the imagery of Amazon doing things by burning through people like little tea-lights really stuck in my mind.

http://steve-yegge.blogspot.com/2009/04/have-you-ever-legali...

I wonder if Steve needs to move to marketing? He's done an awesome job here of highlighting one massive difference between GPlus and Facebook - that you can really publish publicly to the whole world, the way the web was intended.

Combined with all the talk of Isaacson's new Steve Jobs biography, makes me want to read an in-depth biography of Bezos's life.

Well written! Is Jeff Bezos really like he paints him to be?

Steve left out data mining and machine learning from his presentation and Bezos spotted it. Is that an example of Bezos' smarts or just a silly omission on Steve's part? Steve keeps emphasizing how smart Bezos is but I see no evidence of it in this post. It just seems like Bezos is good at spotting obvious mistakes people make.

Link to the accidental post

https://plus.google.com/112678702228711889851/posts/eVeouesv...

Whatever. Jeff might be super smart, but apparently he is not smart enough to instill some happiness in the people he works with.

I cannot help it, but I have little respect for people who do this, especially if they are super smart.

I agree with this description of Jeff Bezos:; I hear the similar stories.

Actually, majority of successful leaders (founders, etc.) have s very strong "bullshit detector": for kind of bullshit one can use to receive promotions all way up to a director position - even up to VP.

And it also shows that some people are not succeeding because they are paralyzed by fear of poverty.

The one paragraph that hits home to me was the last:

"That’s where the “Dread Pirate Bezos” line came from. I worked hard and had fun, but every day I honestly worried they might fire me in the morning. Sure, it was a kind of paranoia. But it was sort of healthy in a way. I kept my resume up to date, and I kept my skills up to date, and I never worried about saying something stupid and ruining my career. Because hey, they were most likely going to fire me in the morning."

How else can you know your on the 'edge' of your own personal abilities? Nice to know that no matter who you are, those feelings don't go away... unless your Bezos (hey there has to be a few people like that around). :-)

A hyper-intelligent alien is supposedly in our midst and the only evidence given of his vast intelligence is that once upon a time he asked why two software concepts that have been used prominently for years to great profit in his software business that's been running for years were left off a list? Really?

I feel this is a general perception of a leader at any large enough institution. The sense of what they've accomplished makes us perceive them as extraordinary. By the time we get to interact with them, we've created this larger than life image.

Perhaps, inducing that into your team makes you a good leader. Perhaps not.

I think that is a good way to approach anything in life. Prepare hard for it but accept that there'll always be people smarter/better than you. That way, you will worry less about bombing out during presentations, and be more receptive to constructive criticisms.

Any copy of the original anywhere?

As an aside: did he just say Franz Liszt was "famous-ish"?!

Hey Steve, lots of Hacker News readers are just as smart as Jeff Bezos. Some of us may even be smarter. You may remove every third paragraph for him, but you can remove every third word for us and we can fill in the rest with our giant brains. Here goes:

Last week accidentally posted internal rant service platforms my public account. It somehow viral, which nothing short stupefying given it was massive Wall Text. The thing still surreal.

Amazingly, nothing happened to at Google. just laughed me a, all the up to top, for committed what be the of all screwups in history.

But also listened, is super. I probably talk much it, but already figuring how to with some the issues raised. I I shouldn’t surprised. When I in my post that “does everything”, I meant. When they’re with any at all, it’s technical organizational or, they set to solve in a way.

Anyway, whenever goes viral, start wondering it was or staged. accident was. While I no proof, can offer what I is the convincing evidence: the last and a years, I never once on Amazon. Even just months ago, a keynote I gave a conference, was pretty when I about my there. I’ve skirted any shortcomings and on what do well.

I still a lot friends at. In fact place is of people admire and. And up now I prided myself my professionalism I have about Amazon. on the, even in internal memo, uncharacteristically unprofessional me. So been feeling guilty for past week.

Without retracting I said, like to a more picture for. I’m going try to that picture some true that I’ve shared publicly. secondhand: it’s stuff I myself there. hope you’ll the stories, because it’s hell of interesting place.

Amazon started Jeff, I’ll my stories one about.

Amazon War #1: Jeff

Over years I people give to Jeff and come bruised: emotionally, often career-ily. you came with a or a, you were for joy. to Jeff a gauntlet tends to people back the cave lick their and stay of the for a.

I say and you think PowerPoint, no: he PowerPoint there years ago. not allowed the campus. you present Jeff, you it as.

One day came time me to to Jeff. felt like... don’t know, how they around you you’re going meet the. People giving last-minute advice, you luck, you past of admins security guards. like you’re a movie. gladiator movie.

I’d spent watching Jeff action before turn came, I had in an way. My presentation --, roughly speaking about the skills a engineer ought know -- was resounding success. loved it. everyone was me on back and me like just completed game-winning hail-mary or something. VP told privately: “Presentations Jeff never that well.”

here’s the: I had suspected Jeff going to my presentation. see, I noticed two about him, him over years, that had either caught on, or else had not out how make the actionable.

Here how I. Amazon people, note. This will you. I dead serious.

prepare a for Jeff, make damn you know there is know about subject. Then a prose explaining the and solution(s). it exactly way you write it a leading or industry on the.

is: assume already knows about it. he knows than you about it. if you groundbreakingly original in your, just pretend old hat him. Write prose in succinct, direct, way that would write a world-leading on the.

almost done. last step you’re ready present to is this: every third.

Now you’re to present!

in the there was famous-ish composer/pianist Franz Liszt. is widely to have the greatest who ever. He could anything you him, including stuff not written for, like opera. He was staggeringly good sight-reading that brain was fully engaged the first. After that get bored start embellishing his own.

Bezos is goddamned smart you have turn it a game him or be bored annoyed with. That was first realization him. Who how smart was before became a -- let’s just it was “frigging smart”, he did Amazon from. But for he’s had of people care of for him. doesn’t have do anything all except himself in morning and presentations all long. So really, REALLY at reading. He’s like Franz Liszt sight-reading presentations.

you have start tearing whole paragraphs, even pages, make it for him. will fill the gaps without missing beat. And brain will less time get annoyed the slow of your.

I mean, what it be like start off an incredibly person, arguably first-class genius, then somehow up in situation where have a view of industry battlefield ten years. only do have more than anyone, and access more information anyone else, also have long-term eagle-eye that only handful of in the enjoy.

In sense you even be anymore. People Jeff are regarded as aliens with tangential interest human affairs.

how do prepare a for a alien? Well, my second: He will you. Knowing about your is only first-line defense you. It’s armor that eat through the first minutes. He going to at least deep insight the subject, there on spot, and going to you look a complete.

me folks, saw this time and, for years. Bezos has these incredibly, experienced domain surrounding him huge meetings, on a basis he of shit they never coming. It’s guaranteed facepalm.

So I he was to think something that hadn’t. I know what might be, I’d spent trying to of everything. had reviewed material with of people. it didn’t. I knew was going blindside me, that’s what when you to Jeff.

you assume coming, then not going catch you as off-guard.

of course happened. I Data Mining. in the. He asked point-blank, very: “Why aren’t Mining and Learning in list?” And laughed right his face, sent a wave through stone-faced jury VPs who been listening silence, waiting a cue Jeff as whether he going to happy or was headed the salt.

I laughed I was. He’d caught with my down around ankles, right front of, despite all excruciating weeks preparation. I even deleted a third the exposition to keep giant brain, but it matter. He’d it again, I looked a total in front everyone. It was awesome.

So, of course couldn’t help. And I: “Yup, you me. I know why not in. It should. I’m a. I’ll add.” And he, and we on, and was great. the VPs smiling. It the hell of me they’d had wait for cue, but whatever. was good.

have to: most people scared around because they waaaay too about trying keep their. People in positions sometimes a little much personal invested in success. Can imagine how it must for him be around people all long? But -- well, I I was to get every single. So fuck. Might as aim high go out a ball flame.

That’s the “Dread Bezos” line from. I hard and fun, but day I worried they fire me the morning. it was kind of. But it sort of in a. I kept resume up date, and kept my up to, and I worried about something stupid ruining my. Because hey, were most going to me in morning.

> That is: assume he already knows everything about it. Assume he knows more than you do about it. Even if you have groundbreakingly original ideas in your material, just pretend it’s old hat for him. Write your prose in the succinct, direct, no-explanations way that you would write for a world-leading expert on the material.

So if he knows everything, why am I writing for him?

This post actually is more telling about the absurdity of working at Amazon than the post he took down.

Anyone could please paste the follow up here? All social networks blocked at my company.

With a company the size of Google, isn't releasing something for every employee considered almost "making public" ?

Misdirection and inauthentic, that's what I call Steve Yegge's follow up piece.

Internet attention spans suck.

Remember his first post? Amazon is doing everything wrong and Google is doing everything right.

If Bezos is a super intelligent alien, this begs the question, why is Amazon doing everything wrong?

Also, Google didn't fire Steve Yegge because he did what their 6-figured marketing people couldn't: With a single post, Steve Yegge brought millions of uniques to Google+.

The Bezos-presentation formula would probably work well for Y Combinator applications

I wouldnt be surprised if Steve has a book deal coming.

I doubt it was actually "accidental".

Is Steve trying to win the award for the brownest nose in the tech industry?

Gee.. This guy loves writing.

Interesting read on Bezos. Did not know that he was like that. I added Yegge to my circles since he seems to tell a story well.

I still can't believe the first post was not a fake. Gosh, it didn't contain any figures. How in a data-driven company can you propose some analysis without them?

Liszt was "famous-ish"? No wonder nobody knows him today.