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Comment by Lanrei | Hacker News Reader

Would it still be a bicycle if the pedals aren't connected to the drive? This configuration would make it more like a scooter with a pedal generator.

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"it’s an electric motorcycle with a foot-operated charging crank."

And you can use it to charge your OLPC XO-1! ;)

Exactly, I am not sure if they would be allowed to be in the bicycle lanes in European countries (or at least in Germany)

Do they not allow e-bikes in those? That seems surprising, given how important e-bikes and pedal-assists have been (or have been represented as being) for broadening the accessibility of cycling.

A quick googling led me to this statement about Germany and e-bikes:

"Insurance and license plates are required. The maximum motor output is 500 watts for e-bikes. Also, e-bike drivers must use bike lanes unless there are none, in which case they are allowed to ride on the roads."

From: https://adoebike.it/en/an-ultimate-guide-to-e-bike-laws-in-e...

Of course e bikes are allowed, but as you said you need an insurance + they must be capped to 25kmh and only provide power when the user is actively pedalling.

in NL we have 3 kinds rly. 1) electrical assist that is limited to matching the riders output and limited in speed. They are cosidered bicycles. 2) e-bikes that are considered mopeds and 3) electric motorcycles.

E-bikes are generally allowed as they 1) work like regular bikes. 2) only allowed if they're pedal assisted, ie not mopeds.

That differs from country to country.

In France, pedelecs (pedal-assist, assist is capped to 25km/h) are allowed on bike lanes, but speed bikes (not limited to 25km/h, they can reach the same speed as cars in cities, often 50km/h, and do not require pedaling) are not allowed on bike lanes.

For all intent and purpose, a speed bike (or however you call it) is an electric moped.

See these:

https://leva-eu.com/eu-commission-finally-confirms-series-hy...

https://downtown-mag.com/en/new-eu-regulation-declares-ebike...

Quote from the second article:

The EU Commission’s statement ends an almost 5-year problem that has unsettled and set back manufacturers investing in the development of series hybrid bicycles. Undoubtedly, this technology is still a niche product but manufacturers such as automotive supplier Schaeffler are increasingly investing in this technology.

Electric scooters are already allowed (unfortunately for cyclists...), why would adding a charge-crank change that?

I'd be more concerned about how a drive system like that would subtly fail to tickle the endorphine feedback loops the way a bike does. I don't think you'd notice on a conscious level, chances are you might even think you enjoy getting button-press acceleration from the battery buffer, but riding a bike has an immediacy that is close to the walking/running evolution has wired us for. I doubt that an e-scooter fueled by an ergometer generator would come anywhere close. I'm somewhat involved with a cycling vacation business and the way a day of being exposed to those feedback loops makes everybody involved happy that business feels almost like cheating. I really doubt that "ergometer driven e-scooter" could ever come anywhere close to that. But, well, Schaeffler isn't aiming at recreational cycling at all, just at the last mile delivery industry. I could not even guess wether it would make those jobs even more miserable or not.

Ignoring that they're not too different from an e-scooter, these could trivially only power the cycle when the user is actively pedalling, which would be the main issue with respect to pedelec classification.

Though interestingly it could also put a hard limit on upper speed, since "motor assistance" has to cutoff at 25km/h. A series hybrid bike might be considered to only work off of motor assistance (ignoring downhill).

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