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Comment by wenc | Hacker News Reader

I think expatriate actually has a different shade of meaning from migrant.

Expats are typically people living outside their country on a non-permanent basis (on assignment or some temporary basis), with no intention to permanent emigrate to the country.

Immigrants however are people who move to a country with the intention of settling there permanently.

From the article's description, it sounds like these folks are expats, probably in Portugal on a D7 or Golden Visa (both are temporary visas). Some may elect to apply for citizenship after a period of residency (5 years), in which case they would become immigrants if the choose to remain. I guess some just stay long enough to get an EU passport, and then they buzz off -- then they wouldn't be migrants.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Expatriate

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> Expats are typically people living outside their country on a non-permanent basis (on assignment or some temporary basis), with no intention to permanent emigrate to the country.

> Immigrants however are people who move to a country with the intention of settling there permanently.

I think those are the textbook definitions, but in reality expat is usually applied to those from higher income countries only.

Do this quick experiment, do an image search "expats in <destination_name>" vs "migrants in <destination_name>" and compare the pictures:

See what their income appears to be, clothing, skin color and circumstances.

Dubai:

https://duckduckgo.com/?q=expats+in+dubai&t=h_&iax=images&ia...

https://duckduckgo.com/?q=migrants+in+dubai&t=h_&iar=images&...

Costa Rica:

https://duckduckgo.com/?q=migrants+in+costa+rica&t=h_&iar=im...

https://duckduckgo.com/?q=expats+in+costa+rica&t=h_&iar=imag...

For example, for 'expats in Costa Rica' I got shown a couple in an outdoor hotel, and for 'migrants in Costa Rica' I got shown the Immigration Police detaining a group from Africa and a dozen people sharing a bed.

Dubai is funny example as neither group is permanent, but just there to work. Mostly cause Dubai and likes really aren't big on immigration.

It's fair to assume that British pensioners that move to Spain are not doing it on a temporary basis, however they are still called expats. This kind of language is usually an indication of exceptionalism.

Another example is British newspapers which use "corruption" when writing about alleged corruption in African countries, but use "sleaze" or "controversies" when writing about alleged corruption in the UK.

I believe this is a result of parliamentary language and defamation laws

I doubt it. British media can be sued, in Britain under British defamation laws, by foreigners too. That's why they're careful with rich white celebrities, even if they're foreigners. But less rich or famous (or white) foreigners (or their entire countries)...? Naah, not so much.

I've always thought that the key difference is attitude to the host country. Expatriates don't want to (or don't think they need to) attempt to integrate, migrants do.

I've met British people who've been in NZ since the 1980s who still consider themselves ex-pats - and can still complain about how our Weetbix is nothing like good ol Weetabix.

But then I've met people from Britain who've been here for 10 years, and considered themselves a Kiwi for 10 years too.

I guess it comes down to their mindset.

That can’t be the key difference lest you consider gettoed immigrants with no expectation of integration as expats, which is not the typical usage.

> I've met British people who've been in NZ since the 1980s who still consider themselves ex-pats - and can still complain about how our Weetbix is nothing like good ol Weetabix.

How is this different to any other migrant who misses something from their homeland? Why does it bother you, and why do you see it as an indication of a deficiency of mindset? Shall I similarly hold something against migrants in the UK who prefer something about their homeland? I can't imagine keeping this attitude.

I've lived in other countries but have never called myself an expat. In my experience, the term has been used exclusively by others, mostly non-white people, to describe me.

It's no different from Chinese migrant communities in my hometown calling themselves "Overseas Chinese".

I guess you're not familiar with the stereotype of the "whinging Pom".

It's a stereotype because it's often true. And the usual response is "well, if Britain was so much better, why are you here?"

They're obviously here because Britain wasn't better. But they still trash talk the country that allowed them in.

(Weetabix was an example, not the limit of the complaining).

If I moved to the UK, after 40 years I'd let go of the fact that my home country's coffee (for example) is so much better, because I've obviously chosen to spend four decades in the UK because I find it better than my country.

To repeat myself, it's the mindset. If, after four decades, you're still comparing the country you've moved to unfavorably to your home country, then your mindset isn't one of integration. It's one of colonialism.

> complain about how our Weetbix is nothing like good ol Weetabix.

Who gives a fuck about the differences between different brands – or, even more meaningless, local varieties of the same brand – of chipboard as food?!?

I would say migrants are those who are planning to integrate, if not always culturally then at least economically in the future country.

Expats are those who are neither looking for work, learn the language or associate themselves with the locals, add to local culture.

Expats = white people. Simple.

Have you ever seen Indian H1B workers described as expats?

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