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Comment by hindsightbias | Hacker News Reader

Always copying, never leading.

You're talking about Apple, right?

First smartphone, produced by IBM. First portable media player, produced by Archos. First tablet computer, produced by Cambridge Media.

Apple are infamous for taking someone else's idea, giving it a bit more polish, than marketing it as though they came up with it in the first place.

"Leading" doesn't have to mean "first".

VisiCalc wasn't the first spreadsheet program. It was, however, the leading spreadsheet program for a while.

Lotus 1-2-3 wasn't the first spreadsheet program for the PC. It was, however, the leading one for a while.

put it this way - would you have rather walked around with the IBM Simon in your pocket, or the original iPhone?

The cargo cult stuff is what cracks me up:

    Me: May I tap to pay?
    Cashier: Yes.
    Me: Great. :pulls out Pixel:
    Cashier: Oh, is that Android? We just take Apple Pay.

Never mind that Google Pay came out first, it's now dubbed Apple Pay like Apple invented it and cashiers are convinced the NFC reader only works with iPhones. Because Apple, apparently.

I wonder why Google Pay isn’t a household name?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Google_Pay

Maybe because it’s the same company that announced three messaging apps the same year and has the attention span of Dory.

Apple Pay was first by about a year (2014 vs 2015). Google had a payment product but it was browser based and not integrated into phones, didn’t work with tap to pay through existing nfc chips or anything special.

They seemed to respond to Apple Pay by changing the name (of course) to Android Pay. And there were also specific payment methods for some manufacturers like Samsung Pay also coming out about a year after Apple.

This is not accurate. I had a Nexus S 4G which debut in 2010. It had Google Wallet tap to pay (NFC). I don't exactly know when Google started offering NFC-based payments nor do I remember exactly what it was named as they keep disastrously rebranding their products, however it did come well before Apple Pay which launched in 2014. As per who popularized tap-to-pay in the U.S., there's no question that Apple wins.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nexus_S

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=db5zNbD-QYs

The fact no one seems to be able to exactly pinpoint the moment Android phones were able to support NFC payments kind of tells you why everyone credits Apple for making it popular. Because they did!

Uhh, NFC devices really didn't work with google's service. This is not "cargo cult", this is pure and total google / android stupidity. Every time you claim it's just cargo cult you underestimate apple here.

Google had Google Wallet. Yes, it came out first, but then there was android pay. Then there was google pay send. Then there was Google Pay - which was a mishmash of chrome autofill and an actual app. Internationally its even more confusing, especially in india. Google pay picked up messaging (!!) explore for personalized ads (ugh). There was also peer to peer features.

Then they did a NEW google pay (2020?) that got rid of google accounts (!!!) and uses just your phone number, and you can't import folks you paid from previous app (!!!!). They have a combination of barcodes - 1d and 2d etc etc.

I'm not sure what the latest is. Android Pay taking over? Google Pay taking over? Going back to google wallet?

Keep on going on about the apple "cargo cult". I pay attention to this space a bit, and even I'm confused.

> Uhh, NFC devices really didn't work with google's service.

Isnt the NFC payment technology the same? I dont think Ive ever come across a payment terminal that accepted NFC payments that didn't work with my Android phone.

The naming thing, well that's Google for you. As a user it hasnt really been a problem though, I've just set up whatever the default app is on the phone when I buy a new one and never dont think about it again for another few years.

Google just announced Google Wallet "coming soon" https://twitter.com/Android/status/1524461345885892616

Can't make this shit up.

Huh. Where is this? Where I live (UK) the terminals seems to be universal, and even much more obscure payment services (like Garmin Pay) work absolutely anywhere that accepts any kind of contactless payment (which is almost everywhere that isn't cash-only).

Americans have this whole idea that all their payment woes somehow apply to the whole world. Just recently, John Gruber wrote a lengthy treatise excoriating Europe for trying to force Apple to open up their NFC access. His whole argument was that Apple created the tap to pay market and was due its monopolist rent-seeking because of that. The reality is so different from what is happening in the US that Gruber looked like an Apple fanboy trying to defend the capitalist monopoly from [he checks his note] democracy.

Europeans and Canadians actually prefer to use bank-issued cards with NFC chips instead of phones, because it arrived first and is far more convenient.

> Never mind that Google Pay came out first

Google Pay came out in 2018. Apple Pay came out in 2014.

Perhaps you meant Android Pay? Or Google Wallet? Probably not Google Pay Send.

The tendency to release products half-heartedly and haphazardly, then replace or rename them periodically, is likely why a company with a quarter trillion in annual revenue can't seem to establish any new brands.

Yes, clearly the iPhone was just an IBM Simon[1] with a "bit more polish". Probably took just one or two weeks of engineering effort. Unclear why the IBM sold 50k and the iPhone sold 6M, perhaps just due to marketing budget?

https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:IBM%27s_SweetSpot_sm...

I mean there was plenty that happened in this space between 1992 and 2007. Smartphones were already ubiquitous for business users by 2007 but not for general consumers, including Blackberry, PalmOS, and Windows Mobile devices. As late as 2010 Blackberry was still dominant: https://www.comscore.com/Insights/Press-Releases/2011/1/comS...

Having moved from a Windows Mobile device (MDA Vario 2) to the iPhone 3GS it was clear that the former had no place calling itself a "smart" phone.

It also had less space than Nomad. No wireless. Lame…

And for the young folks.

https://slashdot.org/story/01/10/23/1816257/apple-releases-i...

"Apple are infamous for taking someone else's idea, giving it a bit more polish, than marketing it as though they came up with it in the first place."

This made me laugh. I bought the first iphone - full cash price - no contract, no crap.

When I read this stuff you just realize how underestimated apple is and was.

Anyone who has held a Archos Jukebox in one hand and an OG iPod in the other knows why this comparison is laughable.

Make sure to watch the Google Io from yesterday to see what Google actually is about.

Apple makes high quality luxury hardware and that's it.

Google tries to save the world (android, maps, secure by default, 24x7 renewable...). Of course overstating a little bit as google is still just a company who earns money

Google is an ad company, Apple is a hardware company. All else is marketing.

You do realize that google makes MOST of its money from corps (through marketing crap to you).

Apple incentives are somewhat better aligned with consumers, as they make MOST of their money selling consumers actual stuff, including incredibly hardware!

you mean unrepairable walled garden hardware garbage? not that i am defending Google

Google anonymises data.

Google gave us Google maps, android and plenty of other things before anyone else.

Remember that time Google premiered an AI during the IO keynote that would call a business for you to take an appointment on your behalf? How often have you used this service since its been released? That's right, zero, Google never released the product. They always present things at IO they have no intention of doing. They're not trying to save the world, they're pretending that they're saving the world, one vaporware product at a time.

I believe they did release that product. I interacted with it somewhat recently

Google Duplex? It came out years ago, though I think it was and still is fairly limited in what it can do. Its integrated with Google Assistant.

not the appointment making one, but i use the call screening one all the time when i dont recognize the number

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