Exactly this. By attacking Ukraine, Russia proved to the world that there is no point complying with Russian geopolitical demands. If Ukraine somehow became a NATO member years ago (not saying that that would have happened, but talking hypothetically) Ukraine would never have been attacked. So, the only rational thing for Finland and Sweden to do is to ignore Russia and join NATO.
When did Ukraine actually comply with any threat from Russia since at least the Maidan Revolution??
Not that just because of that Russia had the right to do what it was doing... but let's not forget everything that actually lead to the hostilities like you're simply doing.
Second, why all the Russian lies about nazis? If nato was a legitimate concern why do they need those lies?
If nato was actually a concern, why would they take the step most likely to get Finland and Sweden on board with nato? It seems like many other statements by Russia, nato concerns are lies as well.
Oh man... now it looks like I am a Russian defender when I have to remind people that Ukraine was constitutionally obliged to seek NATO membership, and announced at the Brussels Summit in 2021 [1] that it would become a member? And that this was the trigger for the Russian mobilisation near the Ukrainian border??
How can people forget basic stuff like that?!?
[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ukraine%E2%80%93NATO_relations
And your analogy with Canada and China doesn’t hold up either. In that case too the US would have no right to invade a sovereign country for making decisions about its own future. You speak as if this imagined scenario somehow justifies Putin’s actions when it fact it highlights how wrong they are even more.
For example.
> You speak of “provocation” as if it’s equal and commensurate to bombing and invading a country
I did not.
> Ukraine decided they might like to join NATO - so therefore Russia has a right to invade and level the country.
No. They made it a high priority [1] to join NATO knowing that Russia would be incredibly hostile to them doing that. Whether or not Russia was right to be that way doesn't really matter. If your bully neighbour tells you they may attack you if you try to join NATO, and you try to join NATO, you know all too well you're taking a giant bet.
> Please make this make sense to me.
Does the above help? Can you understand that your giant neighbour may not think like you do, and therefore may be willing to go to war and destroy their own economy just to stop you from joining what they see, rightfully or not, as an enemy alliance, no matter how much you try to convince them the alliance is not a threat even when it's whole reason to exist is to oppose your giant neighbour?
> The bombs dropping on Ukrainian citizens every night while Russian citizens sleep in peace should tell you enough
What does that have to do with the topic being discussed other than try to appeal to emotion? Anyway, yes, I am horrified to see Ukraine being bombed to the ground and I loathe the Russians for doing that. But I remember they made it extremely clear they were going to do that, and the USA and Ukraine were completely defiant to their demands (again, whether those demands were fair or not is another story)... when you have a gun pointed at your head, even the unfairest of demands should be taken seriously.
> In that case too the US would have no right to invade a sovereign country for making decisions about its own future.
Yes, I agree, but we all know all too well the US would absolutely invade, as it has done time and time again. You willing it wouldn't do that won't change that fact.
[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ukraine%E2%80%93NATO_relations
I am pretty sure Sanna Marin is a woman.