Comment by kkfx | Hacker News Reader

Comment by kkfx | Hacker News Reader

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Russian Fed. is a natural partner:

- we are all European, till the Urals, we understand each others as we have done even during the cold war BETTER that what we do with the so called "anglosphere" (cfr Limes, geopolitical review), we also share similar values;

- they have gazillion of natural resources we need, they are developed enough to harvest them but not enough to surpass us in tech terms, they are surrounded by not-really-friendly powers (China in primis) so we need their resources, they need our tech and support, an equal, balanced and fair partnership;

Our best interest is going out of NATO, form a REAL European Union, with a common fiscal and social system, a French-lead initial nuclear deterrent toward an EU army (due to the still present language differences that makes a real general army not really doable in short time), toward again an anti-fascist Costitution modeled around Italy and Germany ones, offering Russia to apply for EAEU (EuroAsian union) with a pact of mutual and fair partnership.

That's was ALREADY ongoing and that's why USA and UK have crafted Ukrainian coup n. 1 (orange revolution https://doi.org/10.1111/j.1467-856x.2008.00343.x for instance) the n. 2 (Euromaidan massacres [1]) and have keeping forging nazis in the east, if you do not know just read OFFICIAL docs like: https://www.osce.org/files/f/documents/e/7/233896.pdf or famous think tanks from USA like: https://www.rand.org/pubs/research_briefs/RB10014.html and relevant doc https://www.rand.org/content/dam/rand/pubs/research_briefs/R...

[1] start from https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-26079957 and https://jacobinmag.com/2022/02/maidan-protests-neo-nazis-rus... observing the famous "F*ck the EU" Nuland's phrase AND who report that

What a load of rubbish.

Russia has no respect for basic human rights and democracy. Deep economic/social integration with Russia is very dangerous for western liberal democracies until Russia makes major reforms (would probably take 50+ years).

Totally agree. Russia could become a good partner if they'd have a working democracy, freedom of press, freedom of speech. And that the wealth in russia isn't divided so that 500 ppl own 98%+.

> Russia has no respect for basic human rights and democracy. Deep economic/social integration with Russia is very dangerous for western liberal democracies until Russia makes major reforms

Is it? We have deep ties with Saudi Arabia. Should those be severed too?

yes

I appriciate your answer, but I was really looking for a response from postingawayonhn.

Absolutely. The west is only friendly with them to keep oil prices stable and to stop another middle eastern war.

How about not buying goods made in China anymore? That could prove hard though..

You are saying that like any-country could just stop trading with china, when it took decades of effort to become dependent on them.

With enough time you could stop trading with china

Oh I wasn't advocating it. I just wanted to show the hypocrisy in these "stop business with Russia, it's run by a despot" kind of arguments. They apply to so many countries the western world continues to do business with.

> With enough time you could stop trading with china

Maybe.. maybe not. If so this would take a lot of time and money.

In an ideal world yes, but the west has much deeper ties with China than it does with Russia. That will take a lot of effort to unwind.

As a Pole I really do not want to relay on EU members only in helping us defend against Russians. USA and UK have proven to be a lot better partners for Ukraine than France or Germany.

5000 helmets from Germany with a month of delay were really more of an insult than help to Ukraine.

France is still going around with "do not humiliate Putin". Well, I want to see him on a trial in Hague.

And the idea that Poland will grant Putin any say over our politics is ridiculous.

The US obviously but what did the UK did better than France and Germany? The UK really is benefiting from sharing the language of the US.

UK trained 22 000 Ukrainian army personnel starting from 2015.

If I recall correctly they also delivered 2000 NLAWs before the start of the war. Ukrainian soldiers love NLAWs.

Germany actually supplies a lot of arms, compared to partners, they announced yesterday that they train Ukrainians to use modern howitzers before sending them to Ukraine.

OTOH, their PR is shit.

Germans were hoping that Ukraine will fall and they can go on doing business with Russia. Right after 2014 annexation of Crimea they decided to build Nord Stream 2. And they were laughing when USA, Poland, Baltics and Ukraine were telling them that they need to diversify.

It's quite possible that without German appeasement of Putin this 2022 invasion would have not even happen.

France and Germany blocked Ukraine NATO membership.

Some of German leaders still hope to go to business like usual like Volkswagen CEO.

Germans still keep on saying that nobody could have foreseen this war.

Well, in 2008, 14 years ago, Polish president in Tbilisi during the Russian invasion of Georgia:

> We know very well. Today Georgia, tomorrow Ukraine, the day after tomorrow – the Baltic States and later, perhaps, time will come for my country, Poland.

I still remember how the Ukrainian ambassador to Germany posted on February 25 that he was crying after visiting German foreign minister who told him Ukraine will cease to exist within 2 weeks.

Germans miscalculated and should suffer for it.

Sorry but... You are fighting for yours enemies. As, unfortunately, many Poles have done since more than a century. Did you remember the UK betrayal right before WWII? When the Crown, a formal ally, ask Polish Gov. to surrender to Germans because "in the end they are right" thanks to their massacre of their own Citizens with a blitz on the Poland soil against Germanophones Poles? The very same tactics NATO mercenaries have trained azov, C14, pravy sektor, svoboda and the other nazi Ukraine having also armed them, pushed them against their own Russianophone peoples?

Did you see what they left in their own colonies around the world, what they have done AGAINST Iraqis People, Venezuelan people, Afghans, Chileans etc? The UK and USA ruling class, betraying their own people values, have the bloodiest trails in the entire world history, they even surpass Germans and Spanish inquisition crimes.

Not to talk about actual Polish government who keep acting against their own people, just to name one the anti-abortion laws, the very same USA rulers want on their own land. Not to talk about CIA funded Solidarność crimes.

I'm curious what is your background to have this crazy to me ideas.

Are you from some BRICS country?

Russians with Austrians and Prussians have destroyed the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth in 1795. They were forcing russification on us. After we regained independence we had to go trough another war with Soviet Russia in 1919. Fortunately, we stood our ground in 1920. But then we got attacked by Germans on 1st of September 1939 and backstabbed by Soviets on 17th of September.

Both Germans and Soviets proceeded to mass execute Poles. Both were attempting to destroy Poland. Under direct orders of Stalin Soviets mass executed Poles in Katyń Massacre. Hundreds of thousands, if not millions of Poles were send to Siberia to camps of long death.

My grandmother lived trough the second world war. She still remembers hiding as a small girl from Russian speaking soldiers who were raping children and women indiscriminately.

My grandmother managed to escape Poland before the martial law of 1981. The quality of life in the west was incomparably better than in the communist block.

If CIA was involved with Solidarność I can only be grateful to USA. I'm really grateful to my parents generation who decided to join EU and NATO right after they kicked out communist regime. My grandmother visited Poland for the first time some 6 years after we joined EU. She could not believe how much better life was in Poland at that time.

Today, I work in Belgium, I studied in Netherlands and live in Finland with my Finish girlfriend. I'm welcomed as a friend and equal everywhere. European Union is what Europeans for hundreds of years of unending wars could only dream about.

But Russia is bend on dragging us back. NO!

> I'm curious what is your background to have this crazy to me ideas. > Are you from some BRICS country?

Italian, living in France, nephew of WWII Partisans who have trained me recognizing propaganda, nazi-fascists and who pay them. At the WWII end CLN Alta Italia (general command of Italian Resistance) knowing very well that so called "allies" are just mostly other nazis have proposed to remain on mountains stating clear "UK back off Italy or we will be at war and you can't sustain two fronts", unfortunately USA with the south Italian mafia's and UK with the north and center fascists manage a well done propaganda convincing most to lay down weapons, however those Partisans know where the country will go and we now know they where really right.

New nazis dress suite&tie and talk in English, against British and Americans people of course, as the old one. They call themselves "world government" (try looking for that and new adolf hitler, now named klaus schwab, will pops up, he is the head of WEF in case you do not know) and have the same criminal plans. They choose a new enemy, instead of Jews the prefer Russians and viruses, while they real enemy is always the same: acculturated peoples who go obviously against them.

For Poland: surely Soviet's have done bad things there, and perhaps you do not know how they grab power in Russia, try looking for history and you'll discover that Lenin made a coup against the Mensheviks, the "real" socialist who have made the October revolution, thanks to Kaiser money in exchange to stop the war against them, the stalin have done the rest thanks to absolute power and UK crown money. However even stalin have choose hitler not the west because hitler have made concrete proposal to Soviets while UK have not sending powerless ambassadors with vague and constantly changed proposals. So Soviet choice was NOT criminal but logical. And I add just to keep going with history that years later France M. Petain, now appointed as a fascist traitor have had done a similarly logical choice: between UK crown criminals and the nazi the latter was better for France and yes, as a Socialist, one with a red flag, nephew of Partisans with a red flag I'm pretty convinced that at that time in France I would have been with Petain.

The above long part only to say how history is written by the winner who do their best to betray memory for their own interests.

Anyway thanks the CIA for having revived religious extremists in Poland that bring back human rights far worse that at Soviet time and made people, comparing the actual global conditions, poorer that under the Soviet.

> France is still going around with "do not humiliate Putin".

Not a fan of Mr Macaroon, but thats how diplomacy works. If you spit in someones face and call them names you are closing down avenues of discussion.

If you call putin a 'blood thirsty child killer' at the international level, russia will not talk to you. Because if they did by proxy they are acknowledging your previous statement - imminently putting them at weaker negotiating position.

Just imagine a situation, you have argument with someone - they keep stealing your cookies, you want them to stop - they spit in your face and call you dirty liar, would you keep talking to them or buy laxative cookies?

There is no diplomacy with Putin. What do you want to agree with a man who lied straight in the face of all western world leaders?

A man who awards medals to soldiers committing crimes against humanity.

Even Xi seems to be surprised at what is taking place.

How can you trust anything that Putin signs or says?

This man understand strength and strength only.

You can talk softly or harshly, but carry the biggest stick you can afford when talking to Putin.

And do not trust anything.

I think people really do no want to believe how absolutely evil Putin is.

As an example, Putin quoted a song during press conference with Emmanuel Macron in early February about Ukraine:

"Whether you like it or don't like it, bear with it, my beauty."

The full quote from "Sleeping beauty in a coffin" song by Red Mold would be:

> Sleeping beauty in a coffin, I crept up and fucked her. Like it, or dislike it, sleep my beauty.

Putin just casually quotes songs about necrophilia with regard to Ukraine when planning a war.

And then awards soldiers who probably actually did carry out necrophilia in Ukraine.

Nothing you said is controversial.

But throwing diplomatic channel out of the window because of emotions is foolish pandering.

Name-calling putin doesn't change anything, but takes one tool out of your toolbox.

> 5000 helmets from Germany with a month of delay were really more of an insult than help to Ukraine

Heads-up, you seem to receive your news from outlets with a rather anti-European misinformation bent...

As for German help: The helmets that Germany delivered were explicitly asked for by UA. So were the field hospital units. So were the 500 Stingers, the 1000 Panzerfaust 3s and the 500+ Strela anti-tank rockets. None of them were perceived as an insult.

> And the idea that Poland will grant Putin any say over our politics is ridiculous

The former prime minster of Poland straight-up said last year that the Polish government is serving Putin's agenda by allying with Putin-funded 'Euroskeptic' parties including Le Pen, Orbán and Salvini. He is quite obviously right in his assessment.

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